"If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:41 pm

jbird4049 wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
I am not sure that automation will result in future mass unemployment (I could easily be wrong though). I believe that the current unemployment is mostly due to things other than automation, and that automation requires a better educated population to take advantage of it.

LMFAO

What do you think will happen when most labor is automated?

That's been the argument for two hundreds. We're still waiting. Also having employment with automation requires education, which is now getting harder and harder to get.

Well, we are probably less than a hundred years away from that day now. Maybe we ought to start thinking about the problem?

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jbird4049
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by jbird4049 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:42 pm

California wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
GloryofGreece wrote: Do you think its plausible that with rapid automation in the next few decades America will be left with the choice between some form of Fascism vs. International Communism?
Government policies have the power to increase or decrease the spread of wealth.

Unions use to be strong. The minimum wage higher. College cheap. Higher income taxes on the wealthy and on large estates reduced the concentration of wealth. And yes large numbers of undocumented workers while good for businesses is bad for other low wage earners.

Every major policy change seems to always make the bottom half poorer, shrink the middle class, and stuff unGodly amounts of money into a very few pockets.

Somehow it's always the poor, the working class, blacks, college students, you know, the 80% of Americans either fearing poverty or already there that are responsible for their misery, but not the 1% who actually run the economy and government for themselves. Funny that.


Does anyone think it is the other way around?
You just made the perfect argument for the move away from cronyism to real free market capitalism
All I can say is that we equate wealth with virtue, that the more money a person has the better the human being he is regardless on how he got that way. Some get all the breaks and are born wealthy, and others live and die in Hell, yet it is the money they have that determines their worth.

Also, our system is being coming so corrupt any system besides cronyism would fail.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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jbird4049
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by jbird4049 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:43 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:

LMFAO

What do you think will happen when most labor is automated?

That's been the argument for two hundreds. We're still waiting. Also having employment with automation requires education, which is now getting harder and harder to get.

Well, we are probably less than a hundred years away from that day now. Maybe we ought to start thinking about the problem?
Agreed.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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jediuser598
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by jediuser598 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:34 pm

jbird4049 wrote:
California wrote:
jbird4049 wrote:
Government policies have the power to increase or decrease the spread of wealth.

Unions use to be strong. The minimum wage higher. College cheap. Higher income taxes on the wealthy and on large estates reduced the concentration of wealth. And yes large numbers of undocumented workers while good for businesses is bad for other low wage earners.

Every major policy change seems to always make the bottom half poorer, shrink the middle class, and stuff unGodly amounts of money into a very few pockets.

Somehow it's always the poor, the working class, blacks, college students, you know, the 80% of Americans either fearing poverty or already there that are responsible for their misery, but not the 1% who actually run the economy and government for themselves. Funny that.


Does anyone think it is the other way around?
You just made the perfect argument for the move away from cronyism to real free market capitalism
All I can say is that we equate wealth with virtue, that the more money a person has the better the human being he is regardless on how he got that way. Some get all the breaks and are born wealthy, and others live and die in Hell, yet it is the money they have that determines their worth.

Also, our system is being coming so corrupt any system besides cronyism would fail.
That is absolutely the case. We worship money in the United States.

I'm a fan of capitalism, but this shit is crazy.
Thy praise or dispraise is to me alike:
One doth not stroke me, nor the other strike.
-Ben Johnson

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The Conservative
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by The Conservative » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:08 am

Around 2k popcorn was .99 cents. Today you can't get the same bag for less than 2.25. It's not because corn is harder to come by.. so why?
#NotOneRedCent

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ssu
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by ssu » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:13 am

The Conservative wrote:Around 2k popcorn was .99 cents. Today you can't get the same bag for less than 2.25. It's not because corn is harder to come by.. so why?
The debtors best friend: inflation. At least it's one reason.

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The Conservative
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by The Conservative » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:58 am

ssu wrote:
The Conservative wrote:Around 2k popcorn was .99 cents. Today you can't get the same bag for less than 2.25. It's not because corn is harder to come by.. so why?
The debtors best friend: inflation. At least it's one reason.
Inflation only explains a small amount of increase... not a 100+ increase.
#NotOneRedCent

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Ex-California
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by Ex-California » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:37 am

The Conservative wrote:
ssu wrote:
The Conservative wrote:Around 2k popcorn was .99 cents. Today you can't get the same bag for less than 2.25. It's not because corn is harder to come by.. so why?
The debtors best friend: inflation. At least it's one reason.
Inflation only explains a small amount of increase... not a 100+ increase.
That's the real inflation you're seeing as opposed to the government numbers (lies) If you have time listen to Stapleton on the "Burrito Index"

https://jasonstapleton.com/608-the-burr ... heres-why/
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

Zlaxer
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by Zlaxer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:41 am

Fife wrote:+1 (except for the UBI part; and any coercive profit-sharing as ersatz minimum wage)

Very (small-l) libertarian (gasp).

:goteam:
What's your solution to automation if not ubi?

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Fife
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Re: "If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

Post by Fife » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:16 am

Zlaxer wrote:
Fife wrote:+1 (except for the UBI part; and any coercive profit-sharing as ersatz minimum wage)

Very (small-l) libertarian (gasp).

:goteam:
What's your solution to automation if not ubi?
There are a number of "solutions," I suppose. I'll take the Zen approach of doing nothing over a UBI any old day, just because UBI is easy for me to scrap.

First, what is the legal authority for UBI? Seems like a simply academic discussion unless there is some IRL legitimate way to implement such a program.

Second, the Luddite reflexive position regarding automation is contrary to history and observable human behavior. Automation creates more products, not more leisure time. As much as starry-eyed dreamers have loved to wax poetic about grown ups sitting around singing folk songs all day for centuries, it turns out people would rather have pick-up trucks, cheeseburgers, clean drinking water, computers, iPhones, and medication.

Third, is working a moral burden? (what's wrong with requiring people to work for their supper rather than raiding your fridge?) And is an unconditional income something that able-bodied people morally deserve?

I think the threat of moral injury is the greatest risk. Economically, I don't know that much would change, at the bottom line. But I don't see taking Generation Z and turning it into a nation of video gamers 24/7 is doing them much of a favor. (Also, want to see what REAL income inequality looks like? Just wait until there is a default UBI.)