Alternative History

[Okeefenokee]

Yeah, that's the common theme. Power, and who has it. If it's one western power or another, I think, makes not a whole lot of difference. Some, yes, but not much. Now, if it had been the Ottomans, then we have a problem.

[Smitty-48]

There's really no way for Germany to have won in the sense of becoming the global hegemon, Germany could have won a theatre war, but Germany would not have been able to take the British Empire nor America by force of arms, nor force of economy, the Anglo American alliance would have been the dominant hegemonic order regardless of the British being driven off the continent, even if the French mutinied and the French Army collapsed, the Germans would have simply been the continental power, not the dominant world power.

[Okeefenokee]

There's really no way for Germany to have won in the sense of becoming the global hegemon, Germany could have won a theatre war, but Germany would not have been able to take the British Empire nor America by force of arms, nor force of economy, the Anglo American alliance would have been the dominant hegemonic order regardless of the British being driven off the continent, even if the French mutinied and the French Army collapsed, the Germans would have simply been the continental power, not the dominant world power.

Being the dominant world power requires a world war, though. We don't know what would have happened if Germany had won the war in 1914 and another war had come after.

[Smitty-48]

There's really no way for Germany to have won in the sense of becoming the global hegemon, Germany could have won a theatre war, but Germany would not have been able to take the British Empire nor America by force of arms, nor force of economy, the Anglo American alliance would have been the dominant hegemonic order regardless of the British being driven off the continent, even if the French mutinied and the French Army collapsed, the Germans would have simply been the continental power, not the dominant world power.

Being the dominant world power requires a world war, though. We don't know what would have happened if Germany had won the war in 1914 and another war had come after.

But the transfer of power was never going to be to Germany, the transfer of power commenced the instant the British entered the war, but the transfer of power was from Britain to America, not Germany, and Germany could never have grasped that transfer between for itself.

If Britain doesn't enter the war, it never becomes a world war, so at that point who won the world war would be moot, without Britain it's just a continental theatre war, the world would not be in play therein.

[Okeefenokee]

but continental control was in play. britain fought for a long time to prevent a continental power. if that failed, british power would diminish, which is why they made it a point to fight against any one power becoming a continental power, ie. napoleon.

[ssu]

I'm of the mind that WWI is still recent enough that we aren't able to truly even grasp how different the world would have been if Germany had won. We're still dealing with and feeling the ramifications of that war.

German victory unleashes so many butterflies with their effects that it's really difficult to Project something.

Might have that with a French defeat the French would have gone back to doing what they know so well: have a revolution. So likely you would have a truly sinister situation with a Soviet Russia and a Soviet France. In that case the next war could have easily with the German Kaiser and the British King being allies. Quite natural, as they were close family.

So we could have a totally different kind of "WW2".

A likely German tank design in use in the 1920's of the victorious German Army. To fight the Red French???



Alternative history is usually at the best when looking at some Limited event and having the scope being narrow.

[Smitty-48]

but continental control was in play. britain fought for a long time to prevent a continental power. if that failed, british power would diminish, which is why they made it a point to fight against any one power becoming a continental power, ie. napoleon.

British power would diminish, in America's favour not Germany's, if Germany then fought America for world dominance... well, we know how that turned out...

[ssu]

British power would diminish, in America's favour not Germany's, if Germany then fought America for world dominance... well, we know how that turned out...

Actually the US might get along with Germany quite well. That is if for some reason Imperial Germany would have talented politicians at the helm (likely not). Common enemy unifies. And that enemy we wouldn't know, because so many things could be different.

If the Americans were planning for a war with the UK after the alliance during the Great War, then basically anything would be on the table in an WW1 German victory.

[Smitty-48]

British power would diminish, in America's favour not Germany's, if Germany then fought America for world dominance... well, we know how that turned out...

Actually the US might get along with Germany quite well. That is if for some reason Imperial Germany would have talented politicians at the helm (likely not). Common enemy unifies. And that enemy we wouldn't know, because so many things could be different.

If the Americans were planning for a war with the UK after the alliance during the Great War, then basically anything would be on the table in an WW1 German victory.

But America would still win, and Germany would still lose, because Germany would then be wholly subservient to America as a client state within an American hegenomy instead of Britain, just swapping Germany for Britain that is, either loses their empire to the Empire of Liberty in the process.

No matter what, the European empires are going to fall to the Empire of Liberty, by force or finance no matter, it's just a question of which one comes across willingly and which one resists, America is going to be the winner of the First World War either way.

The war that actually decided who would win the first world war, was the American Civil War, once the Union won that, nothing was going to stop them from becoming the hegemon, it's just a question of when the Europeans would make it happen.

[ssu]

Good point, Smitty.

Likely there would have been that re-match feeling somewhere. In some way a "WW2" of some sort would have happened, which would have improved the position of the US. It's really then about how the alternative losers would have coped with their loss.

And then in Germany there would be the "Democracy gap" that sooner or later would put the Kaiser and the Reichstag. For the times actually the Reichstag was quite modern and dare I say, progressive. And likely this could have gone in a peacefull manner, perhaps Wilhelm III (1941-1951) could have made Germany politically modern, but who knows.

Wonder what his "Victorious Germany" would have looked like under his reign 1941-1951?


And wonder what would have happened to Great Britain if it had lost the war? Who would have come to power? Might have been ugly also in the British Isles.

(Pictures from the British 1926 General Strike. Something like this could have happened if the UK would have "lost" the armstice and the peace)