Alternative History

[Penner]

Same idea as the one from the Historical Controversies thread. Since we don't have a subthread I thought I just make a thread where we can just post stuff from this topic here.

From the old place:

Discuss the "What If's" of historical events.

[Heraclius]

There's always the question:

Would the world have been better off with a WW1 that was won by Germany?

The time period of the war victory would likely be some time around the 1917s after the Russians have surrendered, the French military deciding to mutiny at the additional divisions being sent their way, and the Germans never engaging in unrestricted submarine warfare/sending the Zimmerman telegram.

[skankhunt42]

I'll bite. What if Hillary Clinton wins the 2016 election. How different were the last few weeks of our lives.

I'm not trying to be facetious, seriously, what is happening?

[Heraclius]

I'll bite. What if Hillary Clinton wins the 2016 election. How different were the last few weeks of our lives.

I'm not trying to be facetious, seriously, what is happening?

Does she win both popular and electoral votes? Then nothing really happens. Some protests that don't get much news coverage probably. There will be a lot of discussions about how this is a triumph for women and how Clinton will be a model for generations.

If she wins electoral but not popular; that would be where things get interesting.

[skankhunt42]

I'll bite. What if Hillary Clinton wins the 2016 election. How different were the last few weeks of our lives.

I'm not trying to be facetious, seriously, what is happening?

Does she win both popular and electoral votes? Then nothing really happens. Some protests that don't get much news coverage probably. There will be a lot of discussions about how this is a triumph for women and how Clinton will be a model for generations.

If she wins electoral but not popular; that would be where things get interesting.

I should have been more clear. What if Hillary Clinton was our President-Elect. Where are we now, and where are we going.

[katarn]

For WWI:
So many things change... the US still becomes a major power, but never a superpower. I think the world (by the 30s or so) ends up with a few powers, just like before the war:
The German Empire, with swathes of old France and area, probably taking all of Belgium if France fully mutinees. They don't invade Britain, at least not for a long time in some WWI-like conflict, but reduce its economic hegemony.

With Germany winning, not sure how that effects rise of Bolshevism and formation of Soviet Union (a bit weak there personally), so maybe Russia/Soviet Union. Whichever one would probably keep it a power, especially with the track of industrialization they start on foreseeably no matter the war's outcome. With France out of the picture, Northern Italy possibly gets swallowed too, but the Germans might just settle for ending things by this point.

The USA- mostly a regional and hemispheric player that isn't motivated to leave isolationism as a habit and is largely safe because of being on another continent.

Technology certainly develops differently, and its possible ideology like Nazism never gains popularity in Europe without the economic conditions of the Germans being so poor, although a reparation-levied France might be fodder for those ideals. Perhaps we don't get computers at all/ for a lot longer, since the 'father' of computers is often considered to be Alan Turing and his Enigma code-breaking machine.

[Okeefenokee]

There's always the question:

Would the world have been better off with a WW1 that was won by Germany?

The time period of the war victory would likely be some time around the 1917s after the Russians have surrendered, the French military deciding to mutiny at the additional divisions being sent their way, and the Germans never engaging in unrestricted submarine warfare/sending the Zimmerman telegram.

I take it back further than that. What if the Prince of Bavaria had done like he was supposed to, and not attacked, driving the French into retreat before the German Army had them cut off from behind. The war ends in 1914.

Would there just be another war in a few years, having not had the experience of the first world war? Who knows what would have happened, but it's possible the horrific experience was necessary to get us to here. Letting a little steam off to avert a big war might not have prevented a possibly inevitable big war.

I think it might be the case that the previous culmination of old world might meant it was unavoidable to see a huge clash that thrust us into the modern age. If not in 1914, then in 1920.

[Heraclius]

For WWI:
So many things change... the US still becomes a major power, but never a superpower. I think the world (by the 30s or so) ends up with a few powers, just like before the war:
The German Empire, with swathes of old France and area, probably taking all of Belgium if France fully mutinees. They don't invade Britain, at least not for a long time in some WWI-like conflict, but reduce its economic hegemony.

With Germany winning, not sure how that effects rise of Bolshevism and formation of Soviet Union (a bit weak there personally), so maybe Russia/Soviet Union. Whichever one would probably keep it a power, especially with the track of industrialization they start on foreseeably no matter the war's outcome. With France out of the picture, Northern Italy possibly gets swallowed too, but the Germans might just settle for ending things by this point.

The USA- mostly a regional and hemispheric player that isn't motivated to leave isolationism as a habit and is largely safe because of being on another continent.

Technology certainly develops differently, and its possible ideology like Nazism never gains popularity in Europe without the economic conditions of the Germans being so poor, although a reparation-levied France might be fodder for those ideals. Perhaps we don't get computers at all/ for a lot longer, since the 'father' of computers is often considered to be Alan Turing and his Enigma code-breaking machine.

I don't know, I'd personally see a German WW1 victory as significantly more chaotic. The Austrian-Hungarian Empire was on its' last legs and with the death of Joseph there was nothing really holding the Austrians together. The German Empire is going to try and keep the Austrians in power as I really doubt they're the type to support self-determination. This means a pre-war period where the Hungarians and other minorities in the empire are going to be fighting a bloody conflict against the Germans and Austrians.

Russia is still going to fall to Bolshevism because of the timeline. At this point, Lenin was already in Russia which means the wheels are in motion. If the Germans try and intervene to prevent the revolution from happening, I feel like their population is going to get very pissed off. I just don't see the German people supporting going back into Russia to fight a war that they have no need to fight. By 1917, communist support was pretty high in most countries, including Germany.

The French are going to be in the same situation the Germans found themselves in, except the military is going to be a huge wildcard. The German military was relatively loyal to the state, but the French military was already close to a mutiny during the war. I would honestly predict France to end up in a worse position than the Wiemar Republic.

I feel like such a situation will lead to historians asking how much should Germany help the rest of the nations of Europe. It would become similar to the current EU where the strong try to carry the weak, but the only strong country in this situation is Germany.

[Ex-California]

I'm of the mind that WWI is still recent enough that we aren't able to truly even grasp how different the world would have been if Germany had won. We're still dealing with and feeling the ramifications of that war.

I also think that in a couple hundred years WWI and WWII as well as the Cold War will be lumped into a single conflict by future historians

[Heraclius]

I'm of the mind that WWI is still recent enough that we aren't able to truly even grasp how different the world would have been if Germany had won. We're still dealing with and feeling the ramifications of that war.

I also think that in a couple hundred years WWI and WWII as well as the Cold War will be lumped into a single conflict by future historians

WW1 and WW2? Yes.

The Cold War is another conflict in its' entirety. I don't think you can put these three together like you could do for all four of the conflicts that take place in the Thirty Year's War. There is no real common thread outside of attempting to become the premier superpower.