Meanwhile in Ukraine

[C-Mag]

Capps tell me why it's so important that we support Ukraine in this war ?

they were invaded for no good reason

and are putting up a helluva fight

against an obvious geopolitical foe

obvious lesser evil is obvious

no need to pretend they are angels

but no need for false equivalencies between Putin and Zelensky either

By your standards, the US, Canada, UK and NATO are evil again. How many times have we invaded countries in the last 20 years for no good reasons ?

Why is Russia a geopolitical foe ? I believe it is completely irresponsible to ignore the last 30 years of how we got here. We've had two threads called Poking the Bear viewtopic.php?f=63&t=5504&hilit=Ukraine

Do you forget those and what we talked about ?
Myself, I remember and how the West has provoked and creeped in on Russia, inciting color revolutions and installed puppets for the West. By our Western standards, Russia is free to invade Ukraine. I don't like it, but I won't suspend logic. I won't support the invader, nor the puppet regime.

[SuburbanFarmer]

So your objection is that we are talking about obvious shit ?

my objection is that Russia made an obvious miscalculation and is suffering huge blowback because of it

meanwhile folks on this forum think Putin is making some genius play in Ukraine and Russia's power and influence is growing massively as a result

Negative.
Who here has said Pootin made a Genius play ?

I did, and I stand by it. Or more accurately, he made a mistake invading and thinking it would be over quickly, but the west made a bigger one and he capitalized.

Rubles are now coin of the realm for the EU, and there’s no going back. That hurts the dollar, and the Euro in a big way.

Dollar hegemony is over.

[StCapps]

Fuck, I just want a real argument. Everyone knows what the NPC position is.
'Ukraine Good, Russia Bad, if you say anything different you are a Pootin Apologist'

This is not even an exaggeration. People are literally taking this position. As I mentioned in another thread, my own MIL came to Easter with the "so are you a Putin Republican?" talking point.

Any Republican who sides with Putin

is committing a political blunder

and it's not like there are none who do that

Ukraine Bad, Russia Good, if you say anything different you are Globalist Shill

is a narrative pushed by some on the right

which is even dumber than

Ukraine Good, Russia Bad, if you say anything different you are Putin Apologist

but plenty of idiocy on both extremes

[StCapps]

my objection is that Russia made an obvious miscalculation and is suffering huge blowback because of it

meanwhile folks on this forum think Putin is making some genius play in Ukraine and Russia's power and influence is growing massively as a result

Negative.
Who here has said Pootin made a Genius play ?

I did, and I stand by it. Or more accurately, he made a mistake invading and thinking it would be over quickly, but the west made a bigger one and he capitalized.

Rubles are now coin of the realm for the EU, and there’s no going back. That hurts the dollar, and the Euro in a big way.

Dollar hegemony is over.

The EU is more in the American camp than before the war

Putin has made them closer, while alienating Russia from the.

they still prefer dollars to rubles by a massive margin

the ruble is a shit currency and everyone knows it

even the Russians

Grumpy and zerohedge are the last to know, who knew?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Negative.
Who here has said Pootin made a Genius play ?

I did, and I stand by it. Or more accurately, he made a mistake invading and thinking it would be over quickly, but the west made a bigger one and he capitalized.

Rubles are now coin of the realm for the EU, and there’s no going back. That hurts the dollar, and the Euro in a big way.

Dollar hegemony is over.

The EU is more in the American camp than before the war

Putin has made them closer, while alienating Russia from the.

they still prefer dollars to rubles by a massive margin

the ruble is a shit currency and everyone knows it

even the Russians

Grumpy and zerohedge are the last to know, who knew?

Social/political preference has very little to do with economics. I’m sure there’s plenty of gnashing of teeth while they buy rubles to pay for gas, but it doesn’t matter. King dollah no longer reigns supreme.

Every ruble bought with a Euro is another transfer of wealth to Russia. Same for oil sold in yuan. That stabilizes their currencies and enables more printing power.

More relevant for us, it lowers our printing power and creates more inflation.

[StCapps]

I did, and I stand by it. Or more accurately, he made a mistake invading and thinking it would be over quickly, but the west made a bigger one and he capitalized.

Rubles are now coin of the realm for the EU, and there’s no going back. That hurts the dollar, and the Euro in a big way.

Dollar hegemony is over.

The EU is more in the American camp than before the war

Putin has made them closer, while alienating Russia from the.

they still prefer dollars to rubles by a massive margin

the ruble is a shit currency and everyone knows it

even the Russians

Grumpy and zerohedge are the last to know, who knew?

Social/political preference has very little to do with economics. I’m sure there’s plenty of gnashing of teeth while they buy rubles to pay for gas, but it doesn’t matter. King dollah no longer reigns supreme.

Every ruble bought with a Euro is another transfer of wealth to Russia. Same for oil sold in yuan. That stabilizes their currencies and enables more printing power.

More relevant for us, it lowers our printing power and creates more inflation.

the dollar is still top dog

Russia selling less oil and gas is not made up for by being paid in rubles for it

Russia and China still use dollars

forcing others to use their currency doesn't make their currencies any more desirable outside of their own nations

that just gives other nations a way to dump more worthless Rubles and Yuan for something actually valuable

no country on earth prefers rubles or yuan to dollars, including Russia and China, that hasn't changed, and it won't change because of molehills you are determined to pretend are mountains

Russia's economy is the size of Canada's

probably smaller now, after this Ukrainian blunder

they can't bring the dollar down by selling their oil for rubles, fool

especially when they are selling a lot less of it

[SuburbanFarmer]

forcing others to use their currency doesn't make their currencies any more desirable outside of their own nations

I’m not even sure how to respond to that one

that just gives other nations a way to dump more me worthless Rubles and Yuan for something actually valuable
no country on earth prefers rubles or yuan to dollars, including Russia and China, that hasn't changed, and it won't change because of molehills you are determined to pretend are mountains

Russia's economy is the size of Canada's

probably smaller now, after this Ukrainian blunder

they can't bring the dollar down by selling their oil for rubles, fool

especially when they are selling a lot less of it

I’m not predicting some kind of overall transition to rubles - that’s idiocy. Yes, dollar is still the top dog.

But it is no longer alone. The pillars of dollar’s strength are being kicked out. Hegemony is no more. Simply the best in a bad neighborhood for the time being.

[StCapps]

forcing others to use their currency doesn't make their currencies any more desirable outside of their own nations

I’m not even sure how to respond to that one

that just gives other nations a way to dump more me worthless Rubles and Yuan for something actually valuable
no country on earth prefers rubles or yuan to dollars, including Russia and China, that hasn't changed, and it won't change because of molehills you are determined to pretend are mountains

Russia's economy is the size of Canada's

probably smaller now, after this Ukrainian blunder

they can't bring the dollar down by selling their oil for rubles, fool

especially when they are selling a lot less of it

I’m not predicting some kind of overall transition to rubles - that’s idiocy. Yes, dollar is still the top dog.

But it is no longer alone. The pillars of dollar’s strength are being kicked out. Hegemony is no more. Simply the best in a bad neighborhood for the time being.

being the best in a bad neighborhood is good enough

the dollar was never alone, there was always shitty competition

that hasn't changed

the hegemony isn't done, until the US Navy refuses to defend the strategic choke points that most of the oil supply runs through

and even if that happens, the dollar still won't have a replacement, and will remain top dog

Russia and China have made no moves on those choke points, the pillars all remain intact and untouched

Chins in particular doesn't want to bring the dollar down, as it's the thing propping them up

if Russia actually tries to bring the dollar down , China would side with America

China is far more dependent on America than they are on Russia

the idea that Russia and China will team up to bring America down, is pure fantasy

[Martin Hash]

Jesus Christ, give it a break.

Wait a year: see what's up then? It looks to me like Russia's "winning" (whatever the fuck that is) but maybe there's more I don't know about? If there's some secret information somewhere, please post it here.

[C-Mag]

We have discussed this issue for years, 8 years ago we objectively looked at how a new cold war was being created. We discussed how in 'Poking the Bear' we were forcing Russia's hand. We discussed leaked emails of Western leaders deciding who they would install to run Ukraine, and how this was going to escalate. That was 8 years ago. Some of us have not forgotten the events that led up to this point.

For the last 8 years there has been a Slavic Civil War playing out in Eastern Ukraine. The war didn't start in 2022 with the invasion of Ukraine. It started with the Western instigated color revolution of 2014, and there has been continuous fighting since then.

It is extremely short sighted to ignore the past 8 years, or the US putting troops in Georgia in 2008 or the expansion of NATO, which we said we would not do.