Does Anyone Really Believe in Liberty?

[DBTrek]

Fascism and Communism are both large, coercive, government types.
I'm the non-coercive government guy.

But to binary thinkers, who frame all arguments in terms of communism/fascism, I'm apparently fascist.
I guess I had a 50/50 shot of landing on either side on that one - since it's an arbitrary designation.

[Martin Hash]

I don't explain myself more than 20 times, so you'll have to go review the thread.

[DBTrek]

Private elites don't control armies. Private elites can't invade anything. Private elites can't tax anything.
So ... the Hashonian version of Fascism (rule by private elites) may need some work, if that's what you think I've overlooked.

[C-Mag]

I don't see reducing this as the only options are Filthy Collectivists. Commies or Fascists.

Can one view it as Good vs Evil ? or has Evil just won and there is no option to find Good in this world anymore ?

[DBTrek]

I don't see reducing this as the only options are Filthy Collectivists. Commies or Fascists.

Can one view it as Good vs Evil ? or has Evil just won and there is no option to find Good in this world anymore ?

It does seem to be some kind of utopia-based argument.
"Government and private enterprise are both evil. One is communism and the other is fascism. Only *I* know the right blend of the two that magically equals liberty. If you don't agree with my balance then you're communist or fascist".
/shrug

...but doesn't everyone think they know the right balance? That part isn't weird, it's ascribing everyone outside of your particular balance to an extreme camp that's disheartening.

[C-Mag]

Take the Poles in WW2, they were faced with the binary choice of Commies or Nazi, and most of them chose neither. Instead an underground movement started that lasted for nearly 50 years until they gained their independence.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Private elites don't control armies. Private elites can't invade anything. Private elites can't tax anything.
So ... the Hashonian version of Fascism (rule by private elites) may need some work, if that's what you think I've overlooked.

They literally do though.

Armies: BlackRock.
Taxes: lobbyists that literally write the laws.

[DBTrek]

Private elites don't control armies. Private elites can't invade anything. Private elites can't tax anything.
So ... the Hashonian version of Fascism (rule by private elites) may need some work, if that's what you think I've overlooked.

They literally do though.

Armies: BlackRock.
Taxes: lobbyists that literally write the laws.

You may need to revisit the definition of "literally", "army", and "taxes".
There seems to be some confusion on those concepts.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Private elites don't control armies. Private elites can't invade anything. Private elites can't tax anything.
So ... the Hashonian version of Fascism (rule by private elites) may need some work, if that's what you think I've overlooked.

They literally do though.

Armies: BlackRock.
Taxes: lobbyists that literally write the laws.

You may need to revisit the definition of "literally", "army", and "taxes".
There seems to be some confusion on those concepts.

You do understand that security contractors constitute the majority of our standing army, and that lobbyists present pre-written laws to our representatives, then instruct them on how to vote?

[Martin Hash]

DB is going all StA.

I said Fascism, whatever it’s other trappings, can be identified as authoritarianism by private elites. I gave examples.

Liberty is the antithesis of authoritarianism so liberty is not really present in a Fascist society except at the very top. Several posters said they hated liberty. There’s no argument that both Fascists and Commies clash with liberty.

I said I won’t fight for authoritarianism of any kind, only liberty, but I haven’t met anyone else who supports liberty even though the Preamble of the Constitution says America exists for liberty.