No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

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Fife
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No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by Fife » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:20 pm

Regarding the current discussion of taxes, monarchy, oligarchy, democracy, &c. we are having, I thought you all might enjoy a short essay that amounts to what I think is a rather fascinating thought experiment. This is an essay that should be required reading during orientation week at law school. (I shudder to think what kind of positivism human rights globohomo crap is on such a list nowadays.) Anyway, some of you all might dig it the most.

The Obviousness of Anarchy

In this chapter, I have been asked to present an argument for anarchy. This is an absurdly easy thing to do. In fact, it is a task that can be discharged in two words – look around. However, because most of us, like Dr. Watson, see without observing the significance of what we see, some commentary is required.

Anarchy refers to a society without a central political authority. But it is also used to refer to disorder or chaos. This constitutes a textbook example of Orwellian newspeak in which assigning the same name to two different concepts effectively narrows the range of thought. For if lack of government is identified with the lack of order, no one will ask whether lack of government actually results in a lack of order. And this uninquisitive mental attitude is absolutely essential to the case for the state. For if people were ever to seriously question whether government is really productive of order, popular support for government would almost instantly collapse.

Prof. Hasnas has an interesting insight regarding man as "the imaginative animal."

Do you ever wonder why people believed in the divine right of kings, despite the fact that the monarchs of their time were patently not the type of individuals an all knowing, all-good god would choose to reign over them? They believed in it because they were taught to believe in it and because they could imagine that it was so, regardless of all evidence to the contrary. We no longer believe in such silly things as the divine right of kings. We believe that government is necessary for an orderly peaceful society and that it can be made to function according to the rule of law. We believe this because we have been taught to believe it from infancy and because we can imagine that it is so, regardless of all evidence to the contrary.

One should never underestimate the power of abstract concepts to shape how human beings see the world. Once one accepts the idea that government is necessary for peace and order and that it can function objectively, one’s imagination will allow one to see the hand of government wherever there is law, police, and courts, and render the non-political provision of these services invisible. But if you lay aside this conceptual framework long enough to ask where these services originated and where, to a large extent, they still come from, the world assumes a different aspect. If you want the strongest argument for anarchy, simply remove your self-imposed blinders and look around.

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DBTrek
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by DBTrek » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:30 pm

That is precisely what I was trying to convey with the pirate kingdom example.
You have a community that is literal anarchy.
Men bound by their violent lawlessness, with no future but the gallows should the be captured.

Sounds like a recipe for absolute chaos right?

But it wasn't. Pirate ships and communities were amazingly orderly.
And they were orderly completely without government.

But they did have governance - agreed upon rules that applied to community members with agreed upon punishments for deviating from those rules.

So governance, the action, is completely separable from government, the institution.
(At least, up to the size of a few pirate towns. I don't know if it could scale to billions of people)
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Martin Hash
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by Martin Hash » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:39 pm

Dude wants to live in a pirate kingdom... Because that turned out so well.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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DBTrek
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by DBTrek » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:58 pm

Compared to the alternatives it was paradise.

Merchant marine vessels were run by autocratic captains who could starve their crews, deprive them of wages, and openly rape cabin boys.

Pirate ships were run by consent of the crew, the captain was replaceable by popular vote at any time, and they offered disability pay and in some cases lifelong pensions.

During the Golden Age of Piracy there was no other place a man was more free, or at more liberty to live as he chose, and associate with whom he wished.

But ... you know ... governments weren't tolerating that kind of competition.
These would be the same governments that created Carribean pirates by sanctioning privateers, and then cutting them loose with nothing at the end of the Spanish War of Succession.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Martin Hash
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by Martin Hash » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:04 pm

Dude; nothing stopping you from becoming a pirate; the Somalies do it. It can be a good life stealing from & murdering people who actually produce something. We revert to anarchy, that’s what I’m going to do. Argggg... Cap’n Hash.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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DBTrek
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by DBTrek » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:14 pm

Martin Hash wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:04 pm
Dude; nothing stopping you from becoming a pirate; the Somalies do it.
Thanks to an ascendant merchant class and free market-driven innovations I have even better opportunities, with considerably fewer risks, and more regular rewards than piracy currently offers.
But I'll keep it in mind.
Yarrr!
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Martin Hash
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by Martin Hash » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:18 pm

Same here; government provides me liberty, and I can do great with that without robbing, killing & maiming other people; but without government, watch out for Black Hash.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:31 am

Y'all telling me that pirates elected their leaders, based their rules on the consent of the governed, and then spent their time taking wealth from productive citizens to fund their own pensions?

Reminds me of something.... :think:
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 am

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:31 am
Y'all telling me that pirates elected their leaders, based their rules on the consent of the governed, and then spent their time taking wealth from productive citizens to fund their own pensions?

Reminds me of something.... :think:
Difference there is that the wealth was taken from other, UNgoverned citizens.

So, more like pillaging the Middle East for oil, than domestic taxation.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

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PartyOf5
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Re: No taxes, no legislature, no democracy -- No state

Post by PartyOf5 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:47 am

Real pirates would like you to quit appropriating their culture.