Civil War Doomsday Clock

[SilverEagle]

This has been my prediction from the beginning. The animals can shit all over their zoo, but they can't do anything outside the confines of their cages. Moving into the Wild is suicide for them.

Next we see a genuine uproar over the electoral college, when Joe carries 100% of the city vote, and fails to win a state.

Cities going out of their way to antagonize ruralites is a really bad idea. Their beloved fad diets aren't tenable without being propped up by the agri-business machine. It's almost like they're so out of touch with where their food comes from that they think they can just push around ruralites as though they were serfs.

They've obviously never heard of Alaric.

They already control the food supply. Cargill is headquartered in Minneapolis, not Dry Gulch, NB.

It really is a bit of a stalemate, in military terms. The cities are nicely quartered and in control, and the rurals are spread out and entrenched. Neither can achieve dominance.

I disagree. They are consolidated in cites were we are spread out. Much easier to coordinate an attack on them vs us. It’s in a way like a country fighting against gorilla fighters. Those kind of wars rarely work out in a country’s favor.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

From my perspectives, it's suburban people who work in the city and control public policy to a certain extent. They make these policies, and at the end of the day retreat to their gated communities, removed from the consequences of their policies.

No doubt. There is nothing I hate more than hearing a rich suburbanite hold forth on fixing working-class neighborhoods, rural or urban. They're cloistered idiots blinkered by white-guilt, not dangerous Communists, though.

Often, these suburbanites are not the dangerous communists. Their white-savior complex leads them to being useful idiots for the actual Marxists. Whether or not they're all in on socialism is irrelevant, as they will bend the knee to the Woke Mob 100% of the time, whose leadership consists of dyed in the wool Marxists.

They just need an alternative. An alternative they aren't currently hearing.

You guys regularly rescue me from the dangers of a progressive bubble - but that requires a positive argument in favor of classical liberalism, not just a grievance session against wokeness.

Fear, be it of Marxists or Fascists, left cancel-culture or Trump's chaotic management style, is not a good engine of critical thought and serious political opinions.

[SilverEagle]

From my perspectives, it's suburban people who work in the city and control public policy to a certain extent. They make these policies, and at the end of the day retreat to their gated communities, removed from the consequences of their policies.

No doubt. There is nothing I hate more than hearing a rich suburbanite hold forth on fixing working-class neighborhoods, rural or urban. They're cloistered idiots blinkered by white-guilt, not dangerous Communists, though.

Often, these suburbanites are not the dangerous communists. Their white-savior complex leads them to being useful idiots for the actual Marxists. Whether or not they're all in on socialism is irrelevant, as they will bend the knee to the Woke Mob 100% of the time, whose leadership consists of dyed in the wool Marxists.

I agree 100%! They are useful idiots just like the rioters and general rank in file BLM members.

[Xenophon]

No doubt. There is nothing I hate more than hearing a rich suburbanite hold forth on fixing working-class neighborhoods, rural or urban. They're cloistered idiots blinkered by white-guilt, not dangerous Communists, though.

Often, these suburbanites are not the dangerous communists. Their white-savior complex leads them to being useful idiots for the actual Marxists. Whether or not they're all in on socialism is irrelevant, as they will bend the knee to the Woke Mob 100% of the time, whose leadership consists of dyed in the wool Marxists.

They just need an alternative. An alternative they aren't currently hearing.

You guys regularly rescue me from the dangers of a progressive bubble - but that requires a positive argument in favor of classical liberalism, not just a grievance session against wokeness.

Fear, be it of Marxists or Fascists, left cancel-culture or Trump's chaotic management style, is not a good engine of critical thought and serious political opinions.

I'm just not seeing a willingness to investigate the other side of the aisle by most leftists. It's usually the same refrain of, "Orange Man Bad because my favorite actor/youtuber/podcaster told me he hates gays." When I was young, I was seduced by the promises of Marxism like most literate, intellectual kids. For a time, I thought it was preferable to the Capitalist superstructure. As I matured, and discovered arguments beyond those presented to me by Jon Stewart, I found Marxism lacking in basically every way. (That's not to say unrestricted capitalism is preferable, either.)

I feel like the real issue underlying everything else is the extended adolescence of the typical American. When I was in school, I remember being taught that adolescence was a nebulous concept that could stretch anywhere from 13 to 30. Adulthood was similarly nebulous. Generations of Americans have internalized these implicit lessons. The perpetual child craves a handout. They never move past the immature thought patterns of youth.

[The Conservative]

I'm hoping this is the case, which means Trump will win big & take the House. However, where I live, Jesus Fucking Christ...

Arm up... that's all I can suggest.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Often, these suburbanites are not the dangerous communists. Their white-savior complex leads them to being useful idiots for the actual Marxists. Whether or not they're all in on socialism is irrelevant, as they will bend the knee to the Woke Mob 100% of the time, whose leadership consists of dyed in the wool Marxists.

They just need an alternative. An alternative they aren't currently hearing.

You guys regularly rescue me from the dangers of a progressive bubble - but that requires a positive argument in favor of classical liberalism, not just a grievance session against wokeness.

Fear, be it of Marxists or Fascists, left cancel-culture or Trump's chaotic management style, is not a good engine of critical thought and serious political opinions.

I'm just not seeing a willingness to investigate the other side of the aisle by most leftists. It's usually the same refrain of, "Orange Man Bad because my favorite actor/youtuber/podcaster told me he hates gays." When I was young, I was seduced by the promises of Marxism like most literate, intellectual kids. For a time, I thought it was preferable to the Capitalist superstructure. As I matured, and discovered arguments beyond those presented to me by Jon Stewart, I found Marxism lacking in basically every way. (That's not to say unrestricted capitalism is preferable, either.)

I feel like the real issue underlying everything else is the extended adolescence of the typical American. When I was in school, I remember being taught that adolescence was a nebulous concept that could stretch anywhere from 13 to 30. Adulthood was similarly nebulous. Generations of Americans have internalized these implicit lessons. The perpetual child craves a handout. They never move past the immature thought patterns of youth.

You and me both, man.

I don't know about you, but the thing that convinced me that capitalism was superior (though I am still pretty left-leaning when it comes to regulation and trust-busting and whatnot) to everything else on offer wasn't someone trolling me or calling me stupid for recognizing that capitalism often resulted in inequity.

Existential polarization isn't exclusive to the left. But left-liberals are the group that is most open to views that conflict with their own. They are currently in the thrall of left-illiberalism because the illiberal left is very good at speaking to left-liberals. Illiberal progressives are a smaller group than their volume suggests, and their ideas are trash that can be defeated in the marketplace. Which is, of course, why they attack the marketplace.

Wars, Cultural or Civil, are not, IMHO, the best way to defend the marketplace of ideas.

[Martin Hash]

I'm hoping this is the case, which means Trump will win big & take the House. However, where I live, Jesus Fucking Christ...

I doubt most are going to vote for Trump, but they aren't excited about Biden - but, really, is anybody?

All I know is, regardless of presidential preference, you need to go into the richest suburban neighborhoods to see BLM banners and shit.

The PNW might be different, but y'all getting way out in the tall grass these days, and I don't think the PNW is a representative sample. Dislike of Trump and lukewarm Biden support isn't either tacit or unambiguous support for Communism. You've never met a real commie-hater until you've talked to a Central or South American that has escaped a dictatorship. They'll probably still vote for Biden, though.

The ultimate sign of TDS is to vote for the Communists just to get rid of Trump. If you do it, even if you’re deluding yourself that they’re not really Communists, you definitively have TDS.

[Xenophon]

They just need an alternative. An alternative they aren't currently hearing.

You guys regularly rescue me from the dangers of a progressive bubble - but that requires a positive argument in favor of classical liberalism, not just a grievance session against wokeness.

Fear, be it of Marxists or Fascists, left cancel-culture or Trump's chaotic management style, is not a good engine of critical thought and serious political opinions.

I'm just not seeing a willingness to investigate the other side of the aisle by most leftists. It's usually the same refrain of, "Orange Man Bad because my favorite actor/youtuber/podcaster told me he hates gays." When I was young, I was seduced by the promises of Marxism like most literate, intellectual kids. For a time, I thought it was preferable to the Capitalist superstructure. As I matured, and discovered arguments beyond those presented to me by Jon Stewart, I found Marxism lacking in basically every way. (That's not to say unrestricted capitalism is preferable, either.)

I feel like the real issue underlying everything else is the extended adolescence of the typical American. When I was in school, I remember being taught that adolescence was a nebulous concept that could stretch anywhere from 13 to 30. Adulthood was similarly nebulous. Generations of Americans have internalized these implicit lessons. The perpetual child craves a handout. They never move past the immature thought patterns of youth.

You and me both, man.

I don't know about you, but the thing that convinced me that capitalism was superior (though I am still pretty left-leaning when it comes to regulation and trust-busting and whatnot) to everything else on offer wasn't someone trolling me or calling me stupid for recognizing that capitalism often resulted in inequity.

Existential polarization isn't exclusive to the left. But left-liberals are the group that is most open to views that conflict with their own. They are currently in the thrall of left-illiberalism because the illiberal left is very good at speaking to left-liberals. Illiberal progressives are a smaller group than their volume suggests, and their ideas are trash that can be defeated in the marketplace. Which is, of course, why they attack the marketplace.

Wars, Cultural or Civil, are not, IMHO, the best way to defend the marketplace of ideas.

The problem isn't the number of Illiberal progressives (Marxists), it's their influence and what force they can bring to bear. Marxist infiltration into academia, the media, unions, etc. over the last 70 years have brought us to where we are. It's been a marathon for them, chipping away here and through multiple avenues, and anyone who had the ability to stop them did not have the will. Then, as now, the consequences for going against the secular orthodoxy is the destruction of your livelihood. The extent of the infiltration isn't known, but if you look at the Venona Cables you can see the extent to which American institutions were infiltrated.

I agree, the Marxist's (Illiberal progressive's) ideas can not compete in the marketplace of ideas, which is, as you said, why they cancel people and try to remove the competing ideas from the marketplace. The problem is, the public space consists of online discussions, as much as I find that fact detestable. News Media is compromised, from the NYT to the Bumpkin Gazette. I see this in my own county paper in a county of less than 30,000 people shilled the progressive, illiberal narrative every week, despite the fact that my county is overwhelming Republican.

I agree, A civil war isn't ideal. But when the opponents of liberty effectively control every avenue of public speech, and enforce the most punitive of consequences for wrongthink, I'm not sure a debate is the most effective tactic.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I'm hoping this is the case, which means Trump will win big & take the House. However, where I live, Jesus Fucking Christ...

I doubt most are going to vote for Trump, but they aren't excited about Biden - but, really, is anybody?

All I know is, regardless of presidential preference, you need to go into the richest suburban neighborhoods to see BLM banners and shit.

The PNW might be different, but y'all getting way out in the tall grass these days, and I don't think the PNW is a representative sample. Dislike of Trump and lukewarm Biden support isn't either tacit or unambiguous support for Communism. You've never met a real commie-hater until you've talked to a Central or South American that has escaped a dictatorship. They'll probably still vote for Biden, though.

The ultimate sign of TDS is to vote for the Communists just to get rid of Trump. If you do it, even if you’re deluding yourself that they’re not really Communists, you definitively have TDS.

I hear the same things about Trump and White Nationalists.

I remain skeptical.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I'm just not seeing a willingness to investigate the other side of the aisle by most leftists. It's usually the same refrain of, "Orange Man Bad because my favorite actor/youtuber/podcaster told me he hates gays." When I was young, I was seduced by the promises of Marxism like most literate, intellectual kids. For a time, I thought it was preferable to the Capitalist superstructure. As I matured, and discovered arguments beyond those presented to me by Jon Stewart, I found Marxism lacking in basically every way. (That's not to say unrestricted capitalism is preferable, either.)

I feel like the real issue underlying everything else is the extended adolescence of the typical American. When I was in school, I remember being taught that adolescence was a nebulous concept that could stretch anywhere from 13 to 30. Adulthood was similarly nebulous. Generations of Americans have internalized these implicit lessons. The perpetual child craves a handout. They never move past the immature thought patterns of youth.

You and me both, man.

I don't know about you, but the thing that convinced me that capitalism was superior (though I am still pretty left-leaning when it comes to regulation and trust-busting and whatnot) to everything else on offer wasn't someone trolling me or calling me stupid for recognizing that capitalism often resulted in inequity.

Existential polarization isn't exclusive to the left. But left-liberals are the group that is most open to views that conflict with their own. They are currently in the thrall of left-illiberalism because the illiberal left is very good at speaking to left-liberals. Illiberal progressives are a smaller group than their volume suggests, and their ideas are trash that can be defeated in the marketplace. Which is, of course, why they attack the marketplace.

Wars, Cultural or Civil, are not, IMHO, the best way to defend the marketplace of ideas.

The problem isn't the number of Illiberal progressives (Marxists), it's their influence and what force they can bring to bear. Marxist infiltration into academia, the media, unions, etc. over the last 70 years have brought us to where we are. It's been a marathon for them, chipping away here and through multiple avenues, and anyone who had the ability to stop them did not have the will. Then, as now, the consequences for going against the secular orthodoxy is the destruction of your livelihood. The extent of the infiltration isn't known, but if you look at the Venona Cables you can see the extent to which American institutions were infiltrated.

I agree, the Marxist's (Illiberal progressive's) ideas can not compete in the marketplace of ideas, which is, as you said, why they cancel people and try to remove the competing ideas from the marketplace. The problem is, the public space consists of online discussions, as much as I find that fact detestable. News Media is compromised, from the NYT to the Bumpkin Gazette. I see this in my own county paper in a county of less than 30,000 people shilled the progressive, illiberal narrative every week, despite the fact that my county is overwhelming Republican.

I agree, A civil war isn't ideal. But when the opponents of liberty effectively control every avenue of public speech, and enforce the most punitive of consequences for wrongthink, I'm not sure a debate is the most effective tactic.

Just as war is only as effective as the warriors, debate is only as effective as the debaters.

There is plenty of reason to be frustrated at Marxist infiltration - but resignation to defeat in the public square is an over reaction. Will there be difficulties connected to confronting their terrible ideas? Of course. But, remember, the Marxists made "speaking truth to power" an almost universally accepted value. This doesn't mean we should pretend to be victims, but if you jealously guard your name, your honor, and your integrity, you can still take the moral high ground against cancel culture, or Marxist academics, or whomever you like.

It is worth remembering that they achieved their media and academic position within the lifetime of a single, living adult.

There is no reason to believe they can't lose it just as fast.