Coronavirus thread

[DBTrek]

We lost almost as many jobs in April as Australia has people.
But let's hemm an haww a little more about how to fully educate, engage and empower communities to live under a new normal.
I mean, we've clearly got plenty of time to chew this thing over.
Maybe aim for reopening sometime in 2021 . . . if there's anything to reopen at that point.

[The Conservative]

Last season's flu deaths were around 61k from almost 50 million infections in the US.
The Coronavirus has, so far, killed nearly 77k from 1.3 million confirmed infections.
You would have to multiply the confirmed cases of COVID19 by nearly 40 to make the flu as deadly as the Coronavirus.

44K from 1.3 Million, don't over-inflate numbers...

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You didn't include any of the Pneumonia + COVID deaths.

If you really cared about stats you would have taken the time to look and see that 70,000 Pneumonia deaths during the first 4 months of 2020 is 20,000 more than we usually see in a full year. That is very likely related to COVID.

You are really, really bad at statistics bro.

COVID-19, that is what we are talking about, plain and simple. If you need to pad the numbers to get people scared, fuck off.

[Montegriffo]

For some reason, though, every time some one starts lifting restrictions, they get pilloried as anti-science mammon worshipers.

I don't think that's any more true than suggesting that the shutdown is motivated by a communist plot to sit on your arse getting paid to do nothing.
If we can eliminate the ignorant extremes of this debate it will save a lot of time and be far more productive.

[DBTrek]

For some reason, though, every time some one starts lifting restrictions, they get pilloried as anti-science mammon worshipers.

I don't think that's any more true than suggesting that the shutdown is motivated by a communist plot to sit on your arse getting paid to do nothing.
If we can eliminate the ignorant extremes of this debate it will save a lot of time and be far more productive.

Democratic senators propose $2,000 monthly payments to most Americans

"Ignorant extremes of this debate"

... or facts.
Depending on if you're into that whole reality thing or not, I guess.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

For some reason, though, every time some one starts lifting restrictions, they get pilloried as anti-science mammon worshipers.

I don't think that's any more true than suggesting that the shutdown is motivated by a communist plot to sit on your arse getting paid to do nothing.
If we can eliminate the ignorant extremes of this debate it will save a lot of time and be far more productive.

It ain't me suggesting it. It is Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez who are saying this is proof of why we need more socialism, and publicly stating how great it is that we have this opportunity for a New New Deal.

These aren't AM radio shock-jocks.

[Speaker to Animals]

Generally, a few possible categories of outcomes:

(a) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen. Economy suffers but we keep it mostly intact with stimulus bills and various schemes.

(b) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen and the economy collapses because the government is incapable or unwilling to implement emergency actions to keep us afloat (real possibility).

(c) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are wrong -- we don't see huge spikes in fatalities, the entire health care sector does not collapse, and our economy is not destroyed instead of just enduring a second great depression.

(d) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are correct -- scientists were correct and we suffer 2.2 million fatalities, several times that in permanently disabled, and our economy collapses rather than just a depression. (This is a very real outcome of reopening that some of you refuse to acknowledge)

(a) and (c) are the outcomes people are arguing here, but I have noticed Team Reopen are totally unwilling to even imagine that outcome D is a real possible outcome of their strategy (I would argue more likely than not). If you are not willing to even consider what happens if you are wrong, then I don't think you are operating in a rational capacity here.

To support the Reopen strategy with no containment in place is to believe the republican party over the science of epidemiology. There are reasons to discount the science too. But I don't see republican politicians and their corporate benefactors clamoring to share in the risks. Bezos is not working his warehouses with no PPE and no sick leave to prove his side of the argument here..

And as far as the skin in the game quip.. we all have skin in the game. We all face infection and a terrible death, and all that entails for the people who love and depend upon us. Declaring people have no skin in the game right now is fucking ridiculous and it's also an indicator that this person is completley delusional.

[Montegriffo]

For some reason, though, every time some one starts lifting restrictions, they get pilloried as anti-science mammon worshipers.

I don't think that's any more true than suggesting that the shutdown is motivated by a communist plot to sit on your arse getting paid to do nothing.
If we can eliminate the ignorant extremes of this debate it will save a lot of time and be far more productive.

It ain't me suggesting it. It is Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez who are saying this is proof of why we need more socialism, and publicly stating how great it is that we have this opportunity for a New New Deal.

These aren't AM radio shock-jocks.

Again, mere extremists that it is probably safe to ignore.

Obviously, some degree of Government assistance is going to be necessary if we are to avoid public disorder, food riots and skyrocketing crime rates in a time of mass unemployment but labelling that as some sort of communist takeover is not helpful.
I'm not implying that you are doing that but you don't have to look very hard to find people who are.

[Xenophon]

Generally, a few possible categories of outcomes:

(a) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen. Economy suffers but we keep it mostly intact with stimulus bills and various schemes.

(b) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen and the economy collapses because the government is incapable or unwilling to implement emergency actions to keep us afloat (real possibility).

(c) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are wrong -- we don't see huge spikes in fatalities, the entire health care sector does not collapse, and our economy is not destroyed instead of just enduring a second great depression.

(d) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are correct -- scientists were correct and we suffer 2.2 million fatalities, several times that in permanently disabled, and our economy collapses rather than just a depression. (This is a very real outcome of reopening that some of you refuse to acknowledge)

(a) and (c) are the outcomes people are arguing here, but I have noticed Team Reopen are totally unwilling to even imagine that outcome D is a real possible outcome of their strategy (I would argue more likely than not). If you are not willing to even consider what happens if you are wrong, then I don't think you are operating in a rational capacity here.

To support the Reopen strategy with no containment in place is to believe the republican party over the science of epidemiology. There are reasons to discount the science too. But I don't see republican politicians and their corporate benefactors clamoring to share in the risks. Bezos is not working his warehouses with no PPE and no sick leave to prove his side of the argument here..

And as far as the skin in the game quip.. we all have skin in the game. We all face infection and a terrible death, and all that entails for the people who love and depend upon us. Declaring people have no skin in the game right now is fucking ridiculous and it's also an indicator that this person is completley delusional.

Who will provide dick to the divorcée's of Asheville if not StA?

*salutes*

[SuburbanFarmer]

Generally, a few possible categories of outcomes:

(a) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen. Economy suffers but we keep it mostly intact with stimulus bills and various schemes.

In other words, continue to debase the currency into hyper-inflation.

(b) Maintain social isolation until we have adequate test capacity to safely reopen and the economy collapses because the government is incapable or unwilling to implement emergency actions to keep us afloat (real possibility).

Very likely.

(c) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are wrong -- we don't see huge spikes in fatalities, the entire health care sector does not collapse, and our economy is not destroyed instead of just enduring a second great depression.

This will never be allowed, or people would lose their shit on our feckless senators.

(d) Reopen economy even though we have no community testing to save the economy and scientific models are correct -- scientists were correct and we suffer 2.2 million fatalities, several times that in permanently disabled, and our economy collapses rather than just a depression. (This is a very real outcome of reopening that some of you refuse to acknowledge)

This will never be allowed, or people would lose their shit on our feckless senators.

[PartyOf5]

COVID-19, that is what we are talking about, plain and simple. If you need to pad the numbers to get people scared, fuck off.

I'm not trying to scare anyone. We're talking about COVID, yer you fail to include a column that has COVID as part of the description.

I pointed out how abnormally high pneumonia deaths have been since COVID as my reasoning for including them.

Your retort is to tell me to fuck off.

Just go back to insulting people who are on government assistance and keep telling them they have no voice. No one here was telling you that when you were on the dole.