I don't like Trump

[heydaralon]

All in all, despite my liberty leanings, Trump handled this reasonably well. He lies with the best of them, is narcissistic, but he did a few things right imo:

1. Let each governor handle their state

2. Kept the supply chains open

3. Did not rush to shut down the economy which breathes life into all the healthcare systems we have that are foolishly tied to command econ

My boss (or ex boss since he hasn't shown up in over a month due to COVID fears. Good luck getting promoted now) has insisted to me with earnestness that Trump knew how bad this was gonna get, yet kept everything open because he owns hotels. Like this conspiracy theory involved Trump letting millions die and the hostile to him media not getting ahold of it freaking out the public at the same time. He earnestly believes this. I don't know if this originated from Maddow, Oliver, or Vice, but he has a bad habit of repeating talking points from these shows verbatim from me like he came up with it, and then like expecting that I live under a rock and do not have access to cable or internet so I wouldn't know where he got it. This guy was trying to explain to me that Trump is a Russian agent directly controlled by putin for like 3 years. When I asked him specifically what putin did to get trump elected, he looked at me like a deer in headlights and said, "well, he rigged the election of course." Lol from one conspiracy theory to the next. Anything but reality...

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

TDS, in fact the whole Anti-Trump narrative, is a perfect example of how well propaganda works. Smart people are indoctrinated so thoroughly that they don’t recognize the cognitive dissonance. I think HM is one of the smartest guys on this forum but he got sucked in. Monte is smart but he was biased to begin with so it’s not so apparent. Farmer needs to work out some personal issues so I don’t put him in the same camp.

My theory is that it’s the Chinese. They own the MSM through shell companies, they finance Hollywood, they give endowments to universities, and the provide the Venture Capital for Tech. This is a predictable result of Capitalism combined with “Free” Trade.

You're a lamb to say so.

I am not sure by or to what I have been sucked in, or what cognitive dissonance I am experiencing. As I understand it, Trump said something laughably stupid, and then backed away from it when pressed, while relying upon supporters to run interference by attacking the Lame Stream Media.

Par for the course.

[Speaker to Animals]

The mass graves in NYC could’ve been avoided?
With what?
Hillary magic?

The mental gymnastics it must take to believe:
1. This is the worst pathogen to hit humanity since the Black Plague
2. We totally could’ve avoided mass casualties on NYC if only the president were someone else.

It defies all reason.

Dude, be honest.

Competent governments around the world managed to figure out how to contain and mitigate this disease without mass graves. South Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Germany among others.

How did they do that if not "Hillary magic"??? Derp. Maybe strict contact tracing, comprehensive testing, actually effective travel restrictions, and little things like mandatory mask use played a part. Instead Trump gave us the exact opposite of those. His administration would not even allow testing for anybody but travelers and people who were exposed to infected travelers, so the virus spread rampant across the West Coast. We had his CDC scuttle testing efforts and then his FDC actually try to stop private researchers from testing so that Americans could not find out it was spreading until it was too late. He deliberately ordered the CDC to outright lie to the American people about masks because he failed to secure PPE until it was too late. He shut down air travel from Hubei almost a month after the epidemic and there was literally nothing stopping travelers from there going to second stops on the way here to get around it. Italy was clearly in a deadly epidemic of a new mutation of the virus (type c) that was deadlier than the previous two, and he didn't stop air travel from Italy until it was too late. Type c traveled from Italy to New York City and that's why you are seeing mass graves there.

Fucking get a grip you God damned cultist.

[heydaralon]

Lives over profit is what I keep hearing, but what does that mean in practice? It sounds good, but how does that translate into a plan?

With what do we treat sick people if not money? We could go Mother Theresa, but in practice her Calcutta missions were generally hospices. Like, if the average American got the same treatment the average Indian got, people would be up in arms.

We have extremely high expectations for care in this country. That is great, but it has a tangible real world cost. We spend astronomically high amounts of money on people who we know are lost causes, just to prolong their lives a few weeks or months. Again, this is expected now. I'm not arguing against it, but don't pretend that any of this is divorced from the fact that we are an affluent as fuck society. The healthcare we all want so bad is subsidized by the surplus that comes from the maligned profit.

This is unavoidable. The lights, equipment, salaries, and medicine in hospitals don't run on reddit upvotes.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Lives over profit is what I keep hearing, but what does that mean in practice? It sounds good, but how does that translate into a plan?

With what do we treat sick people if not money? We could go Mother Theresa, but in practice her Calcutta missions were generally hospices. Like, if the average American got the same treatment the average Indian got, people would be up in arms.

We have extremely high expectations for care in this country. That is great, but it has a tangible real world cost. We spend astronomically high amounts of money on people who we know are lost causes, just to prolong their lives a few weeks or months. Again, this is expected now. I'm not arguing against it, but don't pretend that any of this is divorced from the fact that we are an affluent as fuck society. The healthcare we all want so bad is subsidized by the surplus that comes from the maligned profit.

This is unavoidable. The lights, equipment, salaries, and medicine in hospitals don't run on reddit upvotes.

I, more or less, agree with you on this, but I have to say that I am a bit disheartened to see the land of boundless opportunity and enviable quality of life reduced to the land of 'moderate your expectations.'

[SuburbanFarmer]

We could easily pay for healthcare with a small fraction of our military spending. Or social security. Or Medicaid/Medicare.

The fact is that we cling to this farce that medical care is some sort of market good. It’s not. Demand is infinite and unavoidable. There is no ‘market’.

Certainly we could preserve a marketplace for designer drugs and high-end treatments, but point-of-care service is not negotiable. There is no world in which humans have an option not to consume it.

And doing so without being able to compare pricing? Absolutely criminal.

[heydaralon]

Lives over profit is what I keep hearing, but what does that mean in practice? It sounds good, but how does that translate into a plan?

With what do we treat sick people if not money? We could go Mother Theresa, but in practice her Calcutta missions were generally hospices. Like, if the average American got the same treatment the average Indian got, people would be up in arms.

We have extremely high expectations for care in this country. That is great, but it has a tangible real world cost. We spend astronomically high amounts of money on people who we know are lost causes, just to prolong their lives a few weeks or months. Again, this is expected now. I'm not arguing against it, but don't pretend that any of this is divorced from the fact that we are an affluent as fuck society. The healthcare we all want so bad is subsidized by the surplus that comes from the maligned profit.

This is unavoidable. The lights, equipment, salaries, and medicine in hospitals don't run on reddit upvotes.

I, more or less, agree with you on this, but I have to say that I am a bit disheartened to see the land of boundless opportunity and enviable quality of life reduced to the land of 'moderate your expectations.'

Well, quality has increased in a lot of ways. This virus is a new threat, but we have eradicated many of them. Shit, we had a president of the last 100 years be confined in a wheelchair from polio. If this current virus happened even 50 years ago, I'm sure the death count would be five or ten times what it is today proportionally. Smallpox to me is far more grotesque than this, and we have all but eradicated it for now. That is awesome.

Stuff that used to kill you outright at best now is treatable, but its expensive as fuck. Imo that is a sign healthcare has gotten better. perfect? No. But improved. 100%. Silver linings and all that.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Trump: “It wouldn’t be through injections. You’re talking about almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it does work, maybe it doesn’t, but it certainly has a big effect on a stationary object.”

You mutterfukkers made me waste my time looking up this fucking FAKE NEWS. Goddamn sheep.

Do a thought experiment with me, and please, really commit.

Imagine it isn't Trump saying it. Imagine it is just some asshole saying: Uh, I don't know... maybe sterilize something... 'cause, if you sterilize it, then, it is sterile. Obviously, not just that, something else also, UV kills stuff, put it inside the body or something... have doctors done that?

You would think the person saying that was a total retard.

[Martin Hash]

R U serious? Everybody seems like a retard to me. Seriously; my whole life is dealing with what appear to me to be retards. Trump is no worse than shit I read on this forum every day. Just read today’s ridiculous face-mask rah-rah posts! I’m a fucking doctor, and people respond to me as if they R 2.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

R U serious? Everybody seems like a retard to me. Seriously; my whole like is dealing with what appear to me to be retards. Trump is no worse than shit I read on this forum every day. Just read today’s ridiculous face-mask rah-rah posts! I’m a fucking doctor, and people respond to me as if they R 2.

I am serious.

Why does Trump get the benefit of the doubt, when the rest of the retards don't? Is it success? We can all drum up a top-ten of successful morons... mostly in media... incidentally the industry where Trump has found his most enduring success.