You know what I love? The State

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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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You know what I love? The State

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:15 am

I think we need a discussion of the amazing triumph of human genius that is the State, specifically the bureaucratic apparatus there of.

It has allowed us all to transcend our miserable lives feeding on charred lizard meat and scrounged berries, while being too inscrutable to effectively manipulate.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

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C-Mag
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by C-Mag » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 am

The State did not move man from hunter - gatherer to agrarian to modern techno society.

The all steel slide lathe, which led to modern machinist tooling and the ability to create precision tools and machinery.

Man had relatively small advancements in technology until the 1750ish precision lathe invention. But once that tech spread, in a hundred years the growth of technology was a hockey stick graph.

On the other hand, the bureaucratic State had been tried by almost every major power in the world. I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, but I don't think you could be more wrong. I'd love to hear your case for this, because what I see, as the bureaucratic State grows, a culture stagnates.
PLATA O PLOMO


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Don't fear authority, Fear Obedience

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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:16 am

The bureaucratic state had not only been tried, but successfully implemented in enough of the world to make precision tools possible by the 18th century.

Order is the engine of our flourishing.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

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Montegriffo
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Montegriffo » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:24 am

We owe it all to potters.
No pottery, no secure grain storage, no civilisation.
Grain storage allowed us to settle and become farmers instead of hunter gatherers.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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StCapps
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by StCapps » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:26 am

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:16 am
The bureaucratic state had not only been tried, but successfully implemented in enough of the world to make precision tools possible by the 18th century.

Order is the engine of our flourishing.
Bureaucracies expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy. While they can occasionally work well in their inception and for a while after, the decay in performance is almost always inevitable, and they need to be cut down to size and retooled frequently or outright eliminated to avoid becoming a Zombie Legacy Project that does more harm than good.
*yip*

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Montegriffo
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Montegriffo » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:30 am

Once you have stored grain, ie wealth, you have to have a state to come along and tax it to redistribute it for the common good.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:31 am

StCapps wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:26 am
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:16 am
The bureaucratic state had not only been tried, but successfully implemented in enough of the world to make precision tools possible by the 18th century.

Order is the engine of our flourishing.
Bureaucracies expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy. While they can occasionally work well in their inception and for a while after, the decay in performance is almost always inevitable, and they need to be cut down to size and retooled frequently or outright eliminated to avoid becoming a Zombie Legacy Project that does more harm than good.
I agree. A garden untended is not but a patch of weeds.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:36 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:30 am
Once you have stored grain, ie wealth, you have to have a state to come along and tax it to redistribute it for the common good.
Having stored grain is already a common good. The state facilitates both the collection and protection of resources. Order and continuity make resource planning possible.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

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Montegriffo
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Montegriffo » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 am

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:36 am
Montegriffo wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:30 am
Once you have stored grain, ie wealth, you have to have a state to come along and tax it to redistribute it for the common good.
Having stored grain is already a common good. The state facilitates both the collection and protection of resources. Order and continuity make resource planning possible.
It's a chicken or egg situation.
They had to have a secure food supply to be able to develop a society capable of defending it but without that society someone else would come along and take it all off you.
That's what the state does, it stops someone else coming along and taking your shit.
Well, that's what it tries to do.
All the great empires were built on taxation and central planning of one form or another.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: You know what I love? The State

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:56 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 am
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:36 am
Montegriffo wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:30 am
Once you have stored grain, ie wealth, you have to have a state to come along and tax it to redistribute it for the common good.
Having stored grain is already a common good. The state facilitates both the collection and protection of resources. Order and continuity make resource planning possible.
It's a chicken or egg situation.
They had to have a secure food supply to be able to develop a society capable of defending it but without that society someone else would come along and take it all off you.
That's what the state does, it stops someone else coming along and taking your shit.
Well, that's what it tries to do.
All the great empires were built on taxation and central planning of one form or another.
All the great empires were built on on insulating order from our chaotic whims.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen