What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

[heydaralon]

Is this situation going to remain in limbo forever? Like, do you think that the world will officially acknowledge the annexation decades down the road, or will it be like an Israel post 1967 situation with the Palestinian territories?

[Smitty-48]

Is this situation going to remain in limbo forever? Like, do you think that the world will officially acknowledge the annexation decades down the road, or will it be like an Israel post 1967 situation with the Palestinian territories?

It could come back into play, if the Siloviki in the Kremlin were overthrown and replaced by Westernized liberals.

Mind you, Koba is back in fashion, the Russians are retrenching back into Stalinism.

It's entirely plausible that the Siloviki could eventually be overthrown by Bolsheviks.

It's not likely to be Russian Bernie Sanders tho, the Bolsheviks wouldn't give it back anymore than Putin will.

This is why it is a faultline for a theater thermonuclear war

Crimea is a geostrategic imperative regardless of who is in the Kremlin.

To the Russians, Crimea is not like Guantanamo Bay, Crimea is like their Norfolk Virginia.

[heydaralon]

Is this situation going to remain in limbo forever? Like, do you think that the world will officially acknowledge the annexation decades down the road, or will it be like an Israel post 1967 situation with the Palestinian territories?

It could come back into play, if the Siloviki in the Kremlin were overthrown and replaced by Westernized liberals.

Mind you, Koba is back in fashion, the Russians are retrenching back into Stalinism.

It's entirely plausible that the Siloviki could eventually be overthrown by Bolsheviks.

It's not likely to be Russian Bernie Sanders tho, the Bolsheviks wouldn't give it back anymore than Putin will.

This is why it is a faultline for a theater thermonuclear war

Crimea is a geostrategic imperative regardless of who is in the Kremlin.

To the Russians, Crimea is not like Guantanamo Bay, Crimea is like their Norfolk Virginia.

Damn. Is Communism really that popular in Russia? After all the bullshit they've been through with it? Ground zero for bad ideas. I get that Stalin can be seen as a hero in their history because of WW2 (defeat of the Nazis is truly the only thing Russians can be proud of over the last 100 years imo), but there are millions of Russians that have lived during the Cold War and after. Are they really jizzing their pants to return to breadlines and shortages of everything, to say nothing of gulags and KGB?

[Smitty-48]

Damn. Is Communism really that popular in Russia?

Stalin was not a communist, nobody killed more commies than Koba

He is the one who put down the World Socialist Revolution

Bolshevik doesn't mean communist, Bolshevik simply means Majoritarian.

[Hastur]

Krimea is a bad hill to die on for the anti Putin crowd. It's the one place they have the most legitimate claim on. It was never a part of Ukraine except administratively under USSR.

[heydaralon]

Damn. Is Communism really that popular in Russia?

Stalin was not a communist, nobody killed more commies than Koba

He is the one who put down the World Socialist Revolution

Bolshevik doesn't mean communist, Bolshevik simply means Majoritarian.

By that logic, Mao wasn't a commie either. He killed far more commies from '58-62 than the US killed in Korea by an order of at least 6000%. For that matter, Kim Il Sung and Pol Pot did too. Pretty much every commie leader in history killed far more communists than their enemies. Its not terribly hard to do when communism is the only party available in your country. Even if you go by party membership (and active upper level members), all these guys were very effective in the commie body count department.


Socialism in one country may have been his official policy, but Stalin was a master of the dual diplomacy. Official negotiations with countries officially, KGB infiltration and sabotage unofficially. France's commie party leader Maurice Thorez took marching orders from Moscow directly. Shit, in WW2, much of the British's war effort from the labor side was lukewarm and in some cases hostile until Britain officially allied with Stalin. IF Stone was a traveller, as were much of Hollywood and FDR's dike wife friends plus Alger Hiss and his butt buddies.

[Smitty-48]

Damn. Is Communism really that popular in Russia?

Stalin was not a communist, nobody killed more commies than Koba

He is the one who put down the World Socialist Revolution

Bolshevik doesn't mean communist, Bolshevik simply means Majoritarian.

By that logic, Mao wasn't a commie either. He killed far more commies from '58-62

No, Mao killed more Chinese people, but he didn't decapitate the Party.

[heydaralon]

Stalin was not a communist, nobody killed more commies than Koba

He is the one who put down the World Socialist Revolution

Bolshevik doesn't mean communist, Bolshevik simply means Majoritarian.

By that logic, Mao wasn't a commie either. He killed far more commies from '58-62

No, Mao killed more Chinese people, but he didn't decapitate the Party.

The entire Cultural Revolution was a panicked response to how bad he fucked up that Country from Great Leap. He didn't throw as many of his cronies under the bus as Stalin did, but he certainly did so when it suited him. Lin Baio. He wrecked his country at least as badly as Stalin did leading up to WW2.

As an aside, its kind of a strange argument to claim that Stalin wasn't a commie when by 1946 he annexed half a continent under the name of communism and exercised control in a way that was basically identical to the central tenants of Marxism/Leninism. That's like saying that Washington was not a true American because he put down the Whiskey Rebellion.

On some level, I know you are trolling, but either you are engaging in the no true scotsman argument or you are just trying to pull semantics like those Bernie "real communism hasn't ever been tried academics" here in the states. You probably know more about military history than anyone I know. You should apply for a university job here. You'd be more qualified than any professor I know, and they like to equivocate for communism too.

[Smitty-48]

Stalin was not a communist, he was a bank robber, self styled after the Georgian Robin Hood, Koba

A friend of Stalin recalls "Koba became Soso's God and gave his life meaning. He wished to become Koba. He called himself 'Koba' and insisted we call him that. His face shone with pride and pleasure when we called him 'Koba'"

The Bolsheviks were not his cronies, they feared and loathed him, but they needed him, as hired muscle.

Contrary to their rhetoric, the Bolsheviks were entirely bourgeois, they were a bunch of academic intellectuals.

[heydaralon]

Stalin was not a communist, he was a bank robber, self styled after the Georgian Robin Hood, Koba

A friend of Stalin recalls "Koba became Soso's God and gave his life meaning. He wished to become Koba. He called himself 'Koba' and insisted we call him that. His face shone with pride and pleasure when we called him 'Koba'"

The Bolsheviks were not his cronies, they feared and loathed him, but they needed him, as hired muscle.

Yeah, I am familiar with his early life and how he read The Patricide and got his nickname etc. Stalin was also in Seminary School. He got good grades until he left. That's like looking back at his life saying, he wasn't a communist, he was an Orthodox Christian.

Stalin, Lenin, and Trotsky were almost the same. Lenin promoted Stalin into the position that allowed him to seize power. The reason that Zionev and Khamanev formed an alliance with him is because they thought Trotsky was a Napoleon type who would have killed them. They were right, but Stalin just got the job that killed them first.

This is what is so silly to me about the Hitchens/Sanders No True Communism argument. Lenin killed millions, and despite his NEP pragmatism he would have continued to do so had he not died. Stalin was pragmatic in certain ways such as bringing back Orthodox/family institutions during WW2 for propaganda, but he was a hardcore ideologue. Trotsky used to criticize Stalin because he felt that he was too lenient.

Whatever your thoughts on Lenin, they should be identical for Stalin and Trotsky. These dudes were all hardcore communists.