Trump Impeachment (Public Hearing)

[pineapplemike]

what is foreign aid except for a quid pro quo? just the US government feeling generous?

Flood the world with US dollars, it's world domination, nary a shot fired.

Information War.

post something about the thread we're in and the conversation taking place

[Smitty-48]

what is foreign aid except for a quid pro quo? just the US government feeling generous?

Flood the world with US dollars, it's world domination, nary a shot fired.

Information War.

post something about the thread we're in and the conversation taking place

I'll post as I please, you asked a question, I answered it.

[The Conservative]

what is foreign aid except for a quid pro quo? just the US government feeling generous?

That's the point, Quid Quo Pro is how governments work.

[brewster]

I'm curious. Just for argument's sake lets assume it went down exactly like these witnesses are saying. Lets momentarily step past the "hearsay!!" "witchhunt!!" and character assassinations. Do you care or do you think it's no big deal? That 'it all in the game' as Mulvaney has implied?

If it went exactly as stated, and there was no hearsay, but there was true proof... I'd be demanding his resignation... but the problem is that "quid pro quo" is an everyday thing with governments. It's called negotiations, tit for tat, quid pro quo... you can name it any way you want, but an agreement between countries is always a give and take.

Give money, expect something in return. Give soldiers, expect something in return.

The point isn't that quid pro quo is off limits, it's that doing it with government money for your domestic partisan political gain should be.

[The Conservative]

I'm curious. Just for argument's sake lets assume it went down exactly like these witnesses are saying. Lets momentarily step past the "hearsay!!" "witchhunt!!" and character assassinations. Do you care or do you think it's no big deal? That 'it all in the game' as Mulvaney has implied?

If it went exactly as stated, and there was no hearsay, but there was true proof... I'd be demanding his resignation... but the problem is that "quid pro quo" is an everyday thing with governments. It's called negotiations, tit for tat, quid pro quo... you can name it any way you want, but an agreement between countries is always a give and take.

Give money, expect something in return. Give soldiers, expect something in return.

The point isn't that quid pro quo is off limits, it's that doing it with government money for your domestic partisan political gain should be.

It's not for political gain... as it has been shown Biden did it specifically for personal gain... Trump wanted it investigated. This is not outside the realm of a legal request.

[brewster]

It's not for political gain... as it has been shown Biden did it specifically for personal gain... Trump wanted it investigated. This is not outside the realm of a legal request.

I guess this branch of conversation ends with that untruth. It's been solidly debunked, Biden was implementing US policy and not off on his own.

[The Conservative]

It's not for political gain... as it has been shown Biden did it specifically for personal gain... Trump wanted it investigated. This is not outside the realm of a legal request.

I guess this branch of conversation ends with that untruth. It's been solidly debunked, Biden was implementing US policy and not off on his own.

Again, in his own words:



He specifically stated that if they didn't fire the investigator that was investigating the company that his son was part of the board, it they would not see the money. They had until he was on the flight to get it done.

That is extortion.

And before you say it wasn't... why are they re-opening the case and 15 others? They didn't have to...

[brewster]

What Biden did was carrying out US policy. There's any number of news articles saying the whole conspiracy thing is nonsense, but here's two of your senators:

2 Republican senators refute Trump’s Ukraine-Biden conspiracy theory
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... mpeachment

Two senators over the past five days have blown a major hole in one of President Donald Trump’s favorite conspiracy theories about Ukraine. Those two lawmakers are staunch Republicans.

Here’s what Trump believes: Joe Biden improperly used the power of his office as vice president to get a Ukrainian general prosecutor fired, in order to stop him from investigating a Ukrainian gas company that Biden’s son Hunter served on the board of. The reality is that Barack Obama’s administration — as well as many other Western European officials — wanted the prosecutor, a man named Viktor Shokin, removed because he was believed to be trying to stymie anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.

But you don’t have to take my word for it: Take what Sens. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and Rob Portman (R-OH) have recently said about Shokin’s 2016 departure.

“The whole world felt that this that Shokin wasn’t doing a [good] enough job. So we were saying, ‘Hey, you’ve ... got to rid yourself of corruption,” Johnson told the radio program The Vicki McKenna Show on Thursday.

And then on Monday, Portman told Ohio’s Columbus Dispatch the same thing. While the article doesn’t contain quotes to this effect, it describes Portman as “disput[ing] Trump’s characterization of an ousted Ukrainian as an aggressive battler of corruption,” saying he and other lawmakers “believed the prosecutor wasn’t doing nearly enough to root out corruption — not because he was doing too much.”

This isn’t terribly surprising. Johnson and Portman were two of three GOP senators who co-signed a bipartisan 2016 letter to Ukraine’s then-president calling for him to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned (although he didn’t officially leave until the following month when Ukraine’s Parliament voted him out).

[The Conservative]

What Biden did was carrying out US policy. There's any number of news articles saying the whole conspiracy thing is nonsense, but here's two of your senators:

2 Republican senators refute Trump’s Ukraine-Biden conspiracy theory
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... mpeachment

Two senators over the past five days have blown a major hole in one of President Donald Trump’s favorite conspiracy theories about Ukraine. Those two lawmakers are staunch Republicans.

Here’s what Trump believes: Joe Biden improperly used the power of his office as vice president to get a Ukrainian general prosecutor fired, in order to stop him from investigating a Ukrainian gas company that Biden’s son Hunter served on the board of. The reality is that Barack Obama’s administration — as well as many other Western European officials — wanted the prosecutor, a man named Viktor Shokin, removed because he was believed to be trying to stymie anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.

But you don’t have to take my word for it: Take what Sens. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and Rob Portman (R-OH) have recently said about Shokin’s 2016 departure.

“The whole world felt that this that Shokin wasn’t doing a [good] enough job. So we were saying, ‘Hey, you’ve ... got to rid yourself of corruption,” Johnson told the radio program The Vicki McKenna Show on Thursday.

And then on Monday, Portman told Ohio’s Columbus Dispatch the same thing. While the article doesn’t contain quotes to this effect, it describes Portman as “disput[ing] Trump’s characterization of an ousted Ukrainian as an aggressive battler of corruption,” saying he and other lawmakers “believed the prosecutor wasn’t doing nearly enough to root out corruption — not because he was doing too much.”

This isn’t terribly surprising. Johnson and Portman were two of three GOP senators who co-signed a bipartisan 2016 letter to Ukraine’s then-president calling for him to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned (although he didn’t officially leave until the following month when Ukraine’s Parliament voted him out).

So answer my last question.

If there was nothing to it, and no wrongdoing, then why is the investigation plus 15 others being opened back up?

Trump wanted one, not 16.

[Montegriffo]

Only the guilty fear investigation.
Wanting to rid an ally of a corrupt prosecutor before doing business is not the same as wanting dirt on a domestic rival before giving out aid.