UK election

[BjornP]

Naive is thinking that challenging the lies makes any difference whatsoever. It does not effect the behavior of politicians at all. Call out the lies all you want, but you are accomplishing nothing by doing so.

So, the British people should just not bother addressing lies coming from the EU, or various Remainer lies and excuses to reverse Brexit? Because all their lies will inevitably win in the end?

[StCapps]

Naive is thinking that challenging the lies makes any difference whatsoever. It does not effect the behavior of politicians at all. Call out the lies all you want, but you are accomplishing nothing by doing so.

So, the British people should just not bother addressing lies coming from the EU, or various Remainer lies and excuses to reverse Brexit? Because all their lies will inevitably win in the end?

They should not expect the Remainers to stop lying because they do call them out for lying, the way Monte thinks that addressing Brexit's lies will stop them from lying. They should focus on making the best case possible for Brexit and against the Remainers, and stop acting like calling a politician a liar is A grade material. Point out why they are wrong and you are right, focusing on calling them liars is ineffective.

Monte is acting like calling a politician a liar is some kind of mic drop, it's not.

[Montegriffo]

The ammunition is not to make a blanket statement about how they lie. The ammunition is to expose specific lies such as how much money is sent to the EU every week.
Obviously, you aren't going to change the vote of the party faithful no matter how many lies you expose. Trump is the ultimate proof of this but what you can do is influence the vote of swing voters.
Since elections are won and lost by the votes of swing voters this scares the base into uttering ridiculous statements like ''all politicians lie'' in order to obfuscate from the specific lies you've outlined.

[StCapps]

What you are looking for is line of attack that is a rare fault of the politician being attacked, that isn't also true of the side attacking them. Calling a politician a liar is not rare fault that most other politicians don't share, their all liars, so another liar gains no ground on the competition by focusing on their opposition being a liar.

[BjornP]

They should address it, but they should not expect the Remainers to stop lying because they do so, the way Monte thinks that addressing Brexit's lies will stop them from lying.

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

[StCapps]

They should address it, but they should not expect the Remainers to stop lying because they do so, the way Monte thinks that addressing Brexit's lies will stop them from lying.

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

Tell that to Monte. He expects politicians not to lie if more people just challenged them on it, or if there is a law against it.

Feel free to correct the lie, but tunnel visioning on lying isn't effective, you need to make a better case than your opponent is a liar, or you going to lose the election if that is the best you got.

Calling a politician a liar, is about as effective, as calling a politician, a politician.
Whoop Dee Doo Basil.

[BjornP]

They should address it, but they should not expect the Remainers to stop lying because they do so, the way Monte thinks that addressing Brexit's lies will stop them from lying.

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

Tell that to Monte. He expects politicians not to lie if more people just challenged them on it, or if there is a law against it.

I don't see him saying that.

The point of challenging political lies is the same as doing infrastructural maintenance. You know roads will keep need repairing forever, docks need securing, etc. and that it will go on and never stop. Doesn't mean you're "failing" when the pothole you filled needs to be replaced by a new pothole 20 years later. Just means you keep struggling. Politics echoes life. A constant struggle, a constant challenge. You are meant to keep asking questions, keep demanding answers, keep having expectations.

[StCapps]

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

Tell that to Monte. He expects politicians not to lie if more people just challenged them on it, or if there is a law against it.

I don't see him saying that.

The point of challenging political lies is the same as doing infrastructural maintenance. You know roads will keep need repairing forever, docks need securing, etc. and that it will go on and never stop. Doesn't mean you're "failing" when the pothole you filled needs to be replaced by a new pothole 20 years later. Just means you keep struggling. Politics echoes life. A constant struggle, a constant challenge. You are meant to keep asking questions, keep demanding answers, keep having expectations.

Calling a politician a liar, is about as effective, as calling a politician, a politician.
Whoop Dee Doo Basil.
-StCapps

[Montegriffo]

They should address it, but they should not expect the Remainers to stop lying because they do so, the way Monte thinks that addressing Brexit's lies will stop them from lying.

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

Tell that to Monte. He expects politicians not to lie if more people just challenged them on it, or if there is a law against it.

Feel free to correct the lie, but tunnel visioning on lying isn't effective, you need to make a better case than your opponent is a liar, or you going to lose the election if that is the best you got.

Calling a politician a liar, is about as effective, as calling a politician, a politician.
Whoop Dee Doo Basil.

The aim of exposing a specific lie is to inform the public that it is a lie and to stop the politician repeating the same lie.
How many times do you think the lie on a bus has been repeated since Boris was forced to admit it was a lie? (which he refused to do until after the votes were cast)

In exposing the lies made during the campaign and how this misled the public into believing £350 million per week was sent to the EU, when in fact the number was around half this, you help strengthen the cause for a second referendum since the original vote was influenced by a deliberate lie.
If I am selling you a house and tell you it has 8 bedrooms when in fact it has 4 are you entitled to change your decision to buy when you find out the truth?

[StCapps]

Catching someone in a lie does not serve the purpose of never ever again having that person tell a lie, Capps. It's like when/if you correct someone who's said something you know to not be factual. Your correction of that person, is not made from an expectation that they'll never ever be wrong about anything again.

Tell that to Monte. He expects politicians not to lie if more people just challenged them on it, or if there is a law against it.

Feel free to correct the lie, but tunnel visioning on lying isn't effective, you need to make a better case than your opponent is a liar, or you going to lose the election if that is the best you got.

Calling a politician a liar, is about as effective, as calling a politician, a politician.
Whoop Dee Doo Basil.

The aim of exposing a specific lie is to inform the public that it is a lie and to stop the politician repeating the same lie.
How many times do you think the lie on a bus has been repeated since Boris was forced to admit it was a lie?

Garak Knows. The most successful politicians know how to get around that.