2020 election

[Montegriffo]

I'm going nowhere, suck it snowflake.

Save that talk for your little boy toys.

OK, that's 3 times now in the last couple of days. You can join Clubby on the naughty step.
Bye.

[Montegriffo]

and as soon as I can afford one I'll drive an electric car.

god bless the oil and gas industry

the major advancements made by today's electric vehicles were made possible by petrochemicals derived from oil and natural gas

That's kind of a bad argument.

You still have those plastic costs buying any alternative vehicle to the EV. It's a sunk cost in petrochemicals, but it's fixed, and it's universal (so it doesn't really make a distinction between gas and electric vehicles). Yet the EVs don't necessarily consume any oil in order to drive, whereas gas vehicles consume large quantities of gas and oil each year.

Where you might have an edge on them is if the utility power used to produce electricity that charges the EV is run on coal or natural gas. If it's nuclear power, then no, they come out ahead in terms of impact on environment.

Even large fossil fuel power stations are more efficient than little IC engines on cars though if you work out the CO2 per mile. The economies of scale ensure it.
AC , heaters and all the unnecessary gadgets don't help though. Some really basic EVs are what is needed so they can be produced cheaply in large numbers.
Porsche brought out its first all-electric car yesterday but that's not going to help the average earner.
We need the EV equivalent of this

[Speaker to Animals]

god bless the oil and gas industry

That's kind of a bad argument.

You still have those plastic costs buying any alternative vehicle to the EV. It's a sunk cost in petrochemicals, but it's fixed, and it's universal (so it doesn't really make a distinction between gas and electric vehicles). Yet the EVs don't necessarily consume any oil in order to drive, whereas gas vehicles consume large quantities of gas and oil each year.

Where you might have an edge on them is if the utility power used to produce electricity that charges the EV is run on coal or natural gas. If it's nuclear power, then no, they come out ahead in terms of impact on environment.

Even large fossil fuel power stations are more efficient than little IC engines on cars though if you work out the CO2 per mile. The economies of scale ensure it.
AC , heaters and all the unnecessary gadgets don't help though. Some really basic EVs are what is needed so they can be produced cheaply in large numbers.
Porsche brought out its first all-electric car yesterday but that's not going to help the average earner.
We need the EV equivalent of this

Nobody managed to figure it out yet. Many have tried. That would be a huge deal if you can make it work.

[Montegriffo]

I expect it will come from somewhere like India where people just don't have the money for expensive vehicles.

[Speaker to Animals]

I expect it will come from somewhere like India where people just don't have the money for expensive vehicles.

Most likely America or Europe. It is not an economic problem but a technological problem that remains unsolved.

Tesla's attempt is to overcome the problem using an economy of scale whereby they use subsidies to inflate the market to the point where the economy for things like the batteries and electric motors are so high that prices naturally fall and subsidies are no longer needed. I think that is very risky, but somebody might as well try.

[Fife]

People will always try, except when trying is made illegal.

[Montegriffo]

South Korea maybe in conjunction with India...

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/techn ... 15821.html

[pineapplemike]

That's kind of a bad argument.

You still have those plastic costs buying any alternative vehicle to the EV. It's a sunk cost in petrochemicals, but it's fixed, and it's universal (so it doesn't really make a distinction between gas and electric vehicles). Yet the EVs don't necessarily consume any oil in order to drive, whereas gas vehicles consume large quantities of gas and oil each year.

Where you might have an edge on them is if the utility power used to produce electricity that charges the EV is run on coal or natural gas. If it's nuclear power, then no, they come out ahead in terms of impact on environment.

i take your point i were merely responding to the "ban oil and gas" crowd, wherever they may be

[Montegriffo]

John Deere has a tractor ready to hit the farms by next year.


Farms have the land for wind generators and solar panels too.
In the good old days, up to 1/5th of the land was used to grow fodder for the plough horses so it would probably be more efficient than that or growing biofuels.
Lots of big shed roofs so you wouldn't necessarily need to lose much land at all.

[brewster]

We need the EV equivalent of this

Nobody managed to figure it out yet. Many have tried. That would be a huge deal if you can make it work.

Interestingly, that seems to be happening from the other end of the scale with electric scooters becoming ubiquitous in some cities. While I personally think they're a shitshow from safety perspective because a large portion of the riders are traffic scofflaws, environmentally they're fabulous for that short ride. They're also starting to introduce Vespa style E-scooters for street pickup use.

Aren't there tiny EVs in Europe that are like the size of SmartCars? How about this glorified Chinese golf cart that can hit 45mph? IIRC, that's only 15mph under what an early Beetle could do! https://qz.com/1541380/the-cheapest-chi ... nd-europe/