Illegal Immigration

[Martin Hash]

Let me put a vision in your mind...

Squads of heavily armed, jack-booted police storm an East L.A. neighborhood of 10,000 Illegals. They arrest and cram dozens at a time into the backs of trucks which go to a waiting train engine pulling 100 box and cattle cars. It takes a couple days (10,000 people!) During that time they quadron off another neighborhood of 20,000 people (they'll have to do this for 25,000,000 people). Those people would respond exactly LIKE YOU WOULD if faced with the same circumstances - the 2nd Amendment works both ways. I can't think of a better trigger for a civil war.

Let's focus on what we can do:
1) CLOSE THE BORDERS!
2) Forcefully expel violent felons
3) Educate Primary age school-children (in English)
4) Allow military service
5) Humanitarian protections (police, fire, disease)

I agree that this is a Home Free card but what realistically are the options? Some people want to make small business responsible:
http://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewto ... f=21&t=386

Then there's the whole question of whether these people can vote? 25 million people unrepresented!

[Stephen mosier]

Your vision is as unrealistic as it is unnecessary.

I agree with your list of can-do actions except military service, and I would add a couple others.

Enact a Constitutional Amendment with the following provisions:

1) That every person charged with a criminal offence will be afforded dues process of law without regard to legal status; and every person shall have full protection of criminal law without regard to legal status of the victim.
3) That no person who has entered or remained in the United States illegally can ever be granted citizenship. An exception would be made for a child brought to the US by its parents, if the child, on reaching age 21 left the US and applied for re-entry through normal INS channels.
3) That no person who has entered or remained illegally will ever be eligible for Social Security or SSI benefits.
4) That no person who has entered or remained illegally may be a party to any lawsuit or other civil action against any citizen or corporate entity within the United States.
5) That no person who has entered or remained illegally may be a party to any contract.
6) That American Citizenship requires at least one parent (biological or adoptive) be a legal citizen; or Naturalization by lawful process regardless of where the child is born.
7) That no action of Congress; the Executive Office; or the Judiciary; may give amnesty, pardon or other legal relief from the provisions of this amendment.

Next , by Act of Congress, prohibit the mass collection of illegal persons for deportation, but require the immediate deportation of any illegal alien who comes to the attention of immigration authorities through normal processes.

The above (together with your list) would not reward those who have come here in violation of our laws and would make it less attractive to remain here illegally. The combination of those who self-deport and those who are deported one-by-one as they are passively encountered would soon outnumber those entering illegally (especially if borders are effectively closed) and the population of illegals would eventually diminish to numbers that could be more easily tolerated. All without mass roundups.

[Martin Hash]

None of your Constitutional prohibitions would be enough to get people to leave on their own accord, yet it would make them vulnerable to the worst sort of exploitation to prevent being found out. You're talking about the disenfrancisement of tens of millions of people! This is America.

I guess we simply have different ideas of how wonderful it is to live in this country. You think people can be harassed out - I don't.

[Stephen mosier]

My Constitutional enactments would give them very little reason to stay—for some that would be enough to encourage them to leave—others it would not. How many would stay versus how many would leave is an unknown. Yes this is America, a land governed by rule of law. No one would be disenfranchised because illegal aliens are have no franchise to be taken from them. That is the law.

Illegal aliens make themselves vulnerable to the worst sorts of exploitation when they commit the crime of entering illegally. That is a choice they made. And it is their choice to leave and end their vulnerability or to stay and continue to live in fear of the law. Choices do have consequences.

What do you mean by harassment? Which of the enactments advocate harassment? They would be protected by police, fire and disease, just as you advocated. They would be afforded due process when accused of a crime. What more protection do they need against your predicted harassment. (How ironic that you can so quickly predict a perceived threat by American Citizens against illegal aliens yet you argue that it is impossible to predict a threat of attack against American Citizens by avowed enemies of our Nation.)

I am not sure that we have different ideas about how wonderful it is to live in this country. Perhaps we only have different ideas about “why” it is wonderful to live here.

[Martin Hash]

You are literally justifying the disenfranchisement, exploitation & lack of representation of tens of millions of people and their children! Slavery comes to mind...

[C-Mag]

Taxation without representation
Alabama Sues Over How Census Counts US Population

The state of Alabama is suing the federal government over how it counts people in the census, claiming it will lose a seat in Congress because it has a low illegal-alien population.

The lawsuit, filed May 21, 2018, in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama, is garnering attention now after two federal judges permanently enjoined the Trump administration from adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census earlier this month.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/alabama-s ... 21720.html

[Zlaxer]

Taxation without representation
Alabama Sues Over How Census Counts US Population

The state of Alabama is suing the federal government over how it counts people in the census, claiming it will lose a seat in Congress because it has a low illegal-alien population.

The lawsuit, filed May 21, 2018, in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama, is garnering attention now after two federal judges permanently enjoined the Trump administration from adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census earlier this month.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/alabama-s ... 21720.html

Taxation without (fair) representation is a bitch.

[Zlaxer]

Let me put a vision in your mind...

Squads of heavily armed, jack-booted police storm an East L.A. neighborhood of 10,000 Illegals. They arrest and cram dozens at a time into the backs of trucks which go to a waiting train engine pulling 100 box and cattle cars. It takes a couple days (10,000 people!) During that time they quadron off another neighborhood of 20,000 people (they'll have to do this for 25,000,000 people). Those people would respond exactly LIKE YOU WOULD if faced with the same circumstances - the 2nd Amendment works both ways. I can't think of a better trigger for a civil war.

Let's focus on what we can do:
1) CLOSE THE BORDERS!
2) Forcefully expel violent felons
3) Educate Primary age school-children (in English)
4) Allow military service
5) Humanitarian protections (police, fire, disease)

I agree that this is a Home Free card but what realistically are the options? Some people want to make small business responsible:
http://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewto ... f=21&t=386

Then there's the whole question of whether these people can vote? 25 million people unrepresented!

You missed the bigger elephant in the room - if the US has no borders...how does medicare for all (and all the other social programs) work?

Wait - let me guess...your proposal would just be a one time thing right?

[Martin Hash]

I can only be logical; I leave illogic up to other people.

[Zlaxer]

I can only be logical; I leave illogic up to other people.

Lolz - still didn't pick up on it - there's no way to avoid either civil war or complete totalitarianism at this point. You can't stop the invasion without risking civil war...but you can't stop the financial collapse without stopping the invasion.....