Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Zlaxer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:44 am

Fife wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:14 am
Negatory.
Ideas are non-rivalrous. Not property.

So software is to be free then? *Copyrights only protect exact copies (or dam near exact copies) of software.

How about music or movies? are those property?

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am

Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:39 am
Fife wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:14 am
Negatory.
Ideas are non-rivalrous. Not property.

So software is to be free then? *Copyrights only protect exact copies (or dam near exact copies) of software.
Implying we haven't already figured out how to tie expensive software to a single user using technology like encrypted dongles and other solutions.

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Zlaxer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:39 am
Fife wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:14 am
Negatory.
Ideas are non-rivalrous. Not property.

So software is to be free then? *Copyrights only protect exact copies (or dam near exact copies) of software.
Implying we haven't already figured out how to tie expensive software to a single user using technology like encrypted dongles and other solutions.
And that stops others from de-compiling your code and repackaging it as their own how?

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Zlaxer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:39 am
You can argue this point from your contemptible lawyer perspective all day.
:character-jaws:

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 am

Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:39 am



So software is to be free then? *Copyrights only protect exact copies (or dam near exact copies) of software.
Implying we haven't already figured out how to tie expensive software to a single user using technology like encrypted dongles and other solutions.
And that stops others from de-compiling your code and repackaging it as their own how?
If critical parts of the software are running from your servers, then you control who uses it. There exist lots of ways to tie a software purchase to a specific user.

Nor did patents ever stop software theft either. Disingenuous.

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Zlaxer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am


Implying we haven't already figured out how to tie expensive software to a single user using technology like encrypted dongles and other solutions.
And that stops others from de-compiling your code and repackaging it as their own how?
If critical parts of the software are running from your servers, then you control who uses it. There exist lots of ways to tie a software purchase to a specific user.
Then the critical parts are not in public disclosure and can't be improved upon by others - you're stiffling innovation more than patents.

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am

Nor did patents ever stop software theft either. Disingenuous.
Reverse engineering without patent protection is not theft.

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am

Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 am


And that stops others from de-compiling your code and repackaging it as their own how?
If critical parts of the software are running from your servers, then you control who uses it. There exist lots of ways to tie a software purchase to a specific user.
Then the critical parts are not in public disclosure and can't be improved upon by others - you're stiffling innovation more than patents.

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am

Nor did patents ever stop software theft either. Disingenuous.
Reverse engineering without patent protection is not theft.
I don't have a problem with reverse engineering.

Circumventing anti-theft methods to get free access to software that people are selling, though, I am not okay with that. Reverse engineering just implies you figure out how it works and create your own version. Big whoop.

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Zlaxer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:03 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 am


If critical parts of the software are running from your servers, then you control who uses it. There exist lots of ways to tie a software purchase to a specific user.
Then the critical parts are not in public disclosure and can't be improved upon by others - you're stiffling innovation more than patents.

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 am

Nor did patents ever stop software theft either. Disingenuous.
Reverse engineering without patent protection is not theft.
I don't have a problem with reverse engineering.
So you're cool with the following scenario -

Startup A spends a cool $2,000,000 (all of their seed cash) developing the latest and greatest medical diagnostic software. Company B buys a copy, reverse engineers it at a cost of $100,000 and then proceeds to undercut Startup A in the market. That's apparently OK in StA- and Fife- World.

User avatar
Fife
Posts: 15157
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:47 am

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Fife » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:06 am


User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Intellectual Property and the Structure of Human Action

Post by Speaker to Animals » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:06 am

Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:03 am
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am
Zlaxer wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 am


Then the critical parts are not in public disclosure and can't be improved upon by others - you're stiffling innovation more than patents.




Reverse engineering without patent protection is not theft.
I don't have a problem with reverse engineering.
So you're cool with the following scenario -

Startup A spends a cool $2,000,000 (all of their seed cash) developing the latest and greatest medical diagnostic software. Company B buys a copy, reverse engineers it at a cost of $100,000 and then proceeds to undercut Startup A in the market. That's apparently OK in StA- and Fife- World.
Keeping in mind that Startup A is the first to the market with this technology and has significant advantages in market share that Company B does not possess, while Company B can only begin the process of reverse engineering *after* the software hits the market, which means they have to spend considerable time reverse engineering and then using what they learned to develop their own software competitor.

No, I do not have a problem with it.