Brexit

[Montegriffo]

Anyone who thinks that it's money for nothing has been badly misinformed.

[Ph64]

Anyone who thinks that it's money for nothing has been badly misinformed.

So quantify it then, what are the UK people getting for that £180mil or whatever the number is?
Be specific, wouldn't want you lying now, that could be illegal.

[Montegriffo]

Just the benefits of tariff free trade with the world's largest trading block are worth that.

[Zlaxer]

Just the benefits of tariff free trade with the world's largest trading block are worth that.

Is that worth loosing sovereignty to a bunch of continental fascist? And yes - I mean that word as in EU wants to control your means of production.

[Ph64]

Just the benefits of tariff free trade with the world's largest trading block are worth that.

Is that worth loosing sovereignty to a bunch of continental fascist? And yes - I mean that word as in EU wants to control your means of production.

Monte has never seen a problem that more government money and bureaucracy couldn't "solve".

[Montegriffo]

Just the benefits of tariff free trade with the world's largest trading block are worth that.

Is that worth loosing sovereignty to a bunch of continental fascist? And yes - I mean that word as in EU wants to control your means of production.

Loss of sovereignty is a myth, Parliamentary supremacy was never lost.
This is why the EU was not able to force us to join the Euro or become part of Schengen. We have always retained control of our borders.
I think we lose more control of our future by removing ourselves from the policy makers in Brussels.

[Otern]

It's my understanding that the rebate comes out before the money is sent and what comes back is the money for things like regional development and the countryside stewardship scene (agricultural subsidies).
Making the actual cost to us around 180 million or slightly over half of the lie on the bus.
For reference, the weekly cost of the NHS is 2 billion pounds.

It wasn't only on the bus either. Boris and his team kept repeating the figure throughout the campaign and it was only after the result that he finally admitted on record that it wasn't the true figure.

It was a conscious, deliberate misleading of the public by a public official.

OK, I'll take your word for it, and it's actually 180 million. This is the number we get when we include the money coming back. It's a more true number. And yes, he misled the public. We agree there. But the remainers could EASILY point out these flaws in the campaign leading up to the referendum. And they did. While themselves deliberately misleading the public by telling them "an EU army is a dangerous Brexiter fantasy", while it was in the works, and every high ranking politician knew it. But they're not on trial.

I honestly don't think you'd get another outcome from the referendum, if the bus said "180 million each week", instead of "350 million each week".

In this referendum, the remainers had every advantage they could dream of, and they fucked it all up by not actually taking the brexiters seriously. They had the most respected news outlets on their side, most of the politicians, most of the rich people, most of the cultural elite. And they had a murdered politician, which a lot of remainers used to their advantage to push the narrative of brexiters being violent, murderous racists.

And they still lost.

[Montegriffo]

It's my understanding that the rebate comes out before the money is sent and what comes back is the money for things like regional development and the countryside stewardship scene (agricultural subsidies).
Making the actual cost to us around 180 million or slightly over half of the lie on the bus.
For reference, the weekly cost of the NHS is 2 billion pounds.

It wasn't only on the bus either. Boris and his team kept repeating the figure throughout the campaign and it was only after the result that he finally admitted on record that it wasn't the true figure.

It was a conscious, deliberate misleading of the public by a public official.

OK, I'll take your word for it, and it's actually 180 million. This is the number we get when we include the money coming back. It's a more true number. And yes, he misled the public. We agree there. But the remainers could EASILY point out these flaws in the campaign leading up to the referendum. And they did. While themselves deliberately misleading the public by telling them "an EU army is a dangerous Brexiter fantasy", while it was in the works, and every high ranking politician knew it. But they're not on trial.

I honestly don't think you'd get another outcome from the referendum, if the bus said "180 million each week", instead of "350 million each week".

In this referendum, the remainers had every advantage they could dream of, and they fucked it all up by not actually taking the brexiters seriously. They had the most respected news outlets on their side, most of the politicians, most of the rich people, most of the cultural elite. And they had a murdered politician, which a lot of remainers used to their advantage to push the narrative of brexiters being violent, murderous racists.

And they still lost.

That's not actually true. After the murder of Jo Cox all electioneering was stopped until the vote.

The EU Army seems like a major issue for you but it was not here. I still don't think that speculating about a possible future EU Army is the same as deliberately misleading the public about previous financial information.

[Otern]

The EU Army seems like a major issue for you but it was not here. I still don't think that speculating about a possible future EU Army is the same as deliberately misleading the public about previous financial information.

For fuck's sake. It wasn't "speculating about a possible future EU Army". They blatantly rejected the idea, while still being perfectly aware of it being in the works. They knew it was going to happen, yet they denied the entire concept. That's lying.

And of course it's not a major issue, when it's being framed as a brexiter fantasy. People did bring it up, only to get "just a brexiter fantasy, nothing to worry about".

The EU had been working on the EU Army for years, we all knew about it. And when it's a reality mere months after the referendum, the remainer leadership really can't claim ignorance. They knew, and they lied about what they knew, because telling the truth would serve the brexiters because noone really wants an EU army.

[Montegriffo]

Why is a European Army even a Brexit issue?
Leaving the EU doesn't rule out being part of a military alliance with our neighbours in Europe.
As with everything else, Parliament will decide what happens to the British military.