Urban vs. Rural; What's to be done?

[Speaker to Animals]

Then there is the fact that cities are by their very definition and structure a disruption of nature, and the primary force that alienates human beings from the ecology.

I am convinced that the reason urbanites are so obsessed with what they conceive as "the environment" stems from the intense perception of their separation from nature. This separation also results in their ridiculously flawed ideas about how nature even works. They are so alienated from their sustenance and from a living ecosystem that they talk about these topics as if they describes a machine or a computer network.

[PartyOf5]

I don't mind cities, but I want responsible cities. I want environmentally sound cities. .

first you need to prove that modern Western cities are actually environmentally worse per capita than rural living.

Why? If you are going to make up those kinds of rules then the US shouldn't have to do a thing to improve until places worse like China do better. But it's not really about improving things to liberals, it's about telling others what they should do.

[C-Mag]

I don't mind cities, but I want responsible cities. I want environmentally sound cities. .

first you need to prove that modern Western cities are actually environmentally worse per capita than rural living.

Oh, that's a good one.
Brewster making the argument that miles and miles of concentrated human activity and pollution is more environmentally sound than rural living.

You know what we need is Environmetal campaigns to keep urban development going, we can have slogans like,
Keep San Fran full of shit, and needles, it's good for the environment.

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't mind cities, but I want responsible cities. I want environmentally sound cities. .

first you need to prove that modern Western cities are actually environmentally worse per capita than rural living.

Oh, that's a good one.
Brewster making the argument that miles and miles of concentrated human activity and pollution is more environmentally sound than rural living.

You know what we need is Environmetal campaigns to keep urban development going, we can have slogans like,
Keep San Fran full of shit, and needles, it's good for the environment.

They really don't know any better, man. These people are so utterly divorced from nature, that they have no idea.

[brewster]

You are making a claim that an urban dweller is less environmental than a rural dweller. Prove it. Pointing to the density of waste due to density of people does not do that. Cities have more environmental impact per sq mile but not per capita.

[Speaker to Animals]

Just look at the energy costs to move all those goods into a city. Local grocery stores where I live use local produce when in season. There exist no local farms in NYC. Food has to be shipped in from all over the world.

Or, once again, look at the potentials for ecologically-sustainable planning. There is no chance in the near future that the NYC metropolitan area will ever be ecologically friendly.

On the other hand, small towns can easily be so. We can produce our own food locally. We can build local, environmentally-friendly power plants. We can be self-sufficient here. You cannot.

[C-Mag]

You are making a claim that an urban dweller is less environmental than a rural dweller. Prove it. Pointing to the density of waste due to density of people does not do that. Cities have more environmental impact per sq mile but not per capita.

It's obvious, and you export your waste to rural areas, pollute and drain waterways, and eradicate native flora and fauna. Cities dramatically alter the micro climate and ecosystem of an area.

Easy example. Buffalo NY was named that because of the frequent buffalo and other herd animals that frequented the areas many natural salt licks. The area hosted a thriving ecosystems of animal activity around the area. Not anymore. Further, there is no recovery and reintroduction movement in areas like Buffalo to recover the destroyed ecosystem and landscape.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Watch those locally sourced, self-sufficiently built, power plants get a lot less eco-friendly with local foundries, local mines, and local chemical plants needed to build 'em. Or, ya gonna ship in all that stuff from... ya know... cities?

Nitwits

[C-Mag]

Urbanphiles are so predictable. They worship the concrete hive, fear the outlands, will never admit to their own problems and ecological damage.

The reaction is one of the high priest declaring any critique of urban life is blasphemy. Then the warning, you'd be nothing without us, you'd be in caves. Shut up, you can't point out our failings, we're smart, we're enlightened, we have opera and ballet you Cretans.

[brewster]

Anecdotes and feelz are not statistical proof. You take it as a fact that city dwellers pollute more per capita, prove it. Do 100 rural dwellers driving to market to buy local produce really use less carbon than 100 city dwellers walking to a market to buy transported produce? Prove it.