Lessig's podcast - Another Way

[Ex-California]

It’s always Collectivism vs. Liberty and never the twain shall meet.

+1
Good Line.

I think that's bullshit. The ultimate freedom is pure anarchy. Any society by definition is collectivist to some degree, the argument is just about what degree. By participating in society you are giving up freedoms for other benefits. Pretending otherwise is delusional.

No, because there has to be something to protect life and property in order to have liberty.

[brewster]

+1
Good Line.

I think that's bullshit. The ultimate freedom is pure anarchy. Any society by definition is collectivist to some degree, the argument is just about what degree. By participating in society you are giving up freedoms for other benefits. Pretending otherwise is delusional.

No, because there has to be something to protect life and property in order to have liberty.

Any compact to protect life and property limits liberty. It might not be your liberty. But think of the Rights & Liberty of the criminals! I know that sounds facetious, until you remember all the things you take for granted that were once illegal under some regime or another. Most western nations believe protecting life and property includes limiting firearms, something you likely disagree with. This is why the "line" is bullshit, all societies are compromises, and building a mythology of "Never Compromise!!" is destructive.

[DrYouth]

[popcorn emoji]

[DrYouth]

So this nonsense is supposed to be innovative? This is the standard Left playbook

It's not the standard left playbook because he wants to engage the right... and does actually identify some common ground.
The standard left playbook is to bash the right.
But it is the standard left playbook because he is patronizing of the right, and oozes with lefty bias.

And therefore he goes directly down the same dark useless hole as the rest of the left... and will certainly fail.

[GloryofGreece]

So this nonsense is supposed to be innovative? This is the standard Left playbook

It's not the standard left playbook because he wants to engage the right... and does actually identify some common ground.
The standard left playbook is to bash the right.
But it is the standard left playbook because he is patronizing of the right, and oozes with lefty bias.

And therefore he goes directly down the same dark useless hole as the rest of the left... and will certainly fail.

What episodes does he talk about the non Marxist communists /socialist such as Bakuin, Kropotkin, Proudon, Sorel etc.?

[Ex-California]

I think that's bullshit. The ultimate freedom is pure anarchy. Any society by definition is collectivist to some degree, the argument is just about what degree. By participating in society you are giving up freedoms for other benefits. Pretending otherwise is delusional.

No, because there has to be something to protect life and property in order to have liberty.

Any compact to protect life and property limits liberty. It might not be your liberty. But think of the Rights & Liberty of the criminals! I know that sounds facetious, until you remember all the things you take for granted that were once illegal under some regime or another. Most western nations believe protecting life and property includes limiting firearms, something you likely disagree with. This is why the "line" is bullshit, all societies are compromises, and building a mythology of "Never Compromise!!" is destructive.

Check your definition of big L Liberty. When we speak of liberty, we're not speaking of pure animal freedom, ie, the power to do as one pleases, but instead Liberty is the freedom fromarbitrary or despotic control, the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges, and the power of choice.

The best liberty definition is "permission especially to go freely within specified limits." Those specified limits can be something like the NAP, or something agreed upon by all and codified, ie, law.

[Martin Hash]

Every time someone mentions Liberty vs. Collectivism, the Collectivists jump in with examples of collectivism in society which somehow justifies all collectivism. No, mutterfukker, it doesn’t; it’s an Oral Illusion to conflate liberty with anarchy.

[Speaker to Animals]

Are individualists winning or losing against collectivists?

[Martin Hash]

We won until landing on the moon didn’t mean anything. When sloth became more respected than achievement, liberty lost.

[Martin Hash]

Sloth is not laziness; sloth is personal consumption without social production.

i.e. Fun, food & fantasy. (Exercise, eating & entertainment.)

p.s. As explained in Season IV of PRay TeLL, Dr. Hash, which begins tomorrow.