2020 election

[nmoore63]

If the Blue Team has listened to my grandpa, die hard democrat, back in 2008.

Run Hillary now (2008)
Run Obama in 2016.

Obama would be president.

[StCapps]

If the Blue Team has listened to my grandpa, die hard democrat, back in 2008.

Run Hillary now (2008)
Run Obama in 2016.

Obama would be president.

Maybe, depends on how shitty of a job Hillary did. If she shat the bed, then being associated with Democrat brand would have sunk him in 2016. A big reason for Obama's success was how weak the Republican brand was after Bush in 2008, and that he got to face McCain and then Romney in 2012. Hillary could have easily beat them too.

An Obama vs. Trump 2016 campaign would have been epic though, that's for sure.

[brewster]

Hillary lost because Trump has a better brand than she did. Ideas played a role in that, not when it comes to policy, but when it comes to marketing. He sold more palatable lies than she did, and told more popular truths than she did. The best used car salesman won, as is always the case in politics.

Well put. But the fact remains that the brands (parties) remain, and remain the most important thing. Trump didn't convince any mainstream GOP to support him till there was no choice. But then they extracted their usual price, support for the same old platform: guns, anti abortion, banking and industrial deregulation etc, with his supposed exception to trade and foreign policy, which he's failed at.

The face is meaningless except as sales. Presidents really don't have as much discretion as they would like us to believe. They are very constrained by party and realpolitik. Hilary would not have been significantly different a president than Obama, most of the 2016 GOP field would not have been significantly different than Trump as far as 95% of policy. GHWB was not a Neocon true believer, but he had to play one, that was the hand he was dealt. His son was a puppet of the Neocons. Bill operated in a very narrow band between centrist-left and co-opted GOP policies.

Power is where it always was, with the money, and must be respected. Among the Trump lies was that he was financially independent and unbeholden. Whatever he is actually worth, he was not willing to part with much to be president and is still beholden to the Powers.

[clubgop]

Well when you turn out to be wrong, you'll just invent a reason to pretend you're still right. If Biden loses, you'll act like I never saw his downfall via gaffe coming, and the reason he lost is a revolt against the establishment, instead of Joe Biden being a putz. There is no reasoning with you, it's true

That's a copout. Biden is, was, and will be a putz. Win or lose that remains. So if he loses it could very well be both. Putz and revolt of the establishment. I mean hell, what does establishment for the left mean? Punky can tell you it for the GOP. But what is it for the dems? Open borders, anti gun, anti free speech, "free" healthcare for felons, and " free" college for felons. What is it? Your comparisons are a bit antiquated. McGovern is closer, much closer to the establishment dem than HHH is. HHH is a blue dog now, maybe even a Republican.

[Speaker to Animals]

[clubgop]

GHWB was not a Neocon true believer, but he had to play one,

How the fuck do you know? Does Neocon mean "Republican I don't like" like when you use "alt right" or "nazi" because your SJW ass has to abuse terms and keep creating new ones to throw on all your enemies because you wish to silence them instead of debate them honestly, then when they die you can rewrite history and act all magnanimous. Fuck that dishonesty. How is a former CIA director who happily and gainfully employed every last Neocon, talked about a "New World Order" in glowing terms, the architect of Panama and the first Gulf War not a NeoCon? WTF?

[StCapps]

clubby the fringe extremists aren't the base, you're just wrong, these candidates havent taken over the Democrats, they just screech the loudest and get the most media coverage, it's a mirage.

[clubgop]

Saudi Arabia is our ally whether we support their action in Yemen or not. To deny that is exactly what the guy before she spoke said this wasn't. Support for the Houthis and Iran. If I wanted to kow to Iran I could have voted for Hillary. No thanks.

[StCapps]

Biden continues to surge, Bernie continues to fall. Biden now up 22.3 points on Sanders on aggregate, up 32 points on Sanders in the newest poll, with his support at 46%.

Reports of his demise are hilariously premature.

[clubgop]

clubby the fringe extremists aren't the base, you're just wrong, these candidates havent taken over the Democrats, they just screech the loudest and get the most media coverage, it's a mirage.

the most media coverage from the media party is the establishment of that party dude. What you say is the fringe isnt. Open borders, not fringe for dems, free shit, not fringe for dems, reparations, not fringe. Sure, it might all be talk but that doesnt mean it isnt establishment. You are not taking any responsibility here, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too.