What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

brewster
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by brewster » Sun May 05, 2019 2:21 pm

Well, if we're going to talk about dated SF, I just finished a reread of Stranger in a Strange Land. I've been thinking about how one would need to update it for a screen adaptation. Apparently SyFy has (or had) something in the works.

SJW types call Heinlein homophobic, but he was just a man of his times, and in 1961 visionary in many ways of the social revolutions to come. However, if you were doing it today, his free love "nest" would be truly anything goes. Will that fly? It might, some genre series like The Magicians have been pretty 'in your face' with loose sexual boundaries. Even modern shows with gay characters are not very aggressive about showing seemingly straight characters experiment, unless it's the old trope of the guy who bullies the gay kid turning out to be latent.

This bit of prescience regarding the advent of effective birth control combined with medicine and law enforcement on women's liberation blew me away, even though he was talking about their woo-woo PSI stuff. In 1961 women were still regarded mostly as chattel, even in his books. Nobody's perfect.
What happens to that big industry-and to the shrill threats of moralists—when a female can conceive only when she elects to as an act of volition, when also she is immune to disease, cares only for the approval of her own sort … and has her orientation so changed that she desires intercourse with a whole-heartedness that Cleopatra never dreamed of-but any male who tried to rape her would die so quickly, if she so grokked, that he wouldn’t know what hit him? When women are free of guilt and fear-but invulnerable other than by decision of self? Hell, the pharmaceutical industry will be just a passing casualty-what other industries, laws, institutions, attitudes, prejudices, and nonsense must give way?”
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun May 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Anybody who calls Heinlein homophobic is fucking dumb. Heinlein didn't care about sexual mores.

Also, pro-tip: MEN are regarded as chattel and always have been.

brewster
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by brewster » Sun May 05, 2019 2:45 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:34 pm
Anybody who calls Heinlein homophobic is fucking dumb. Heinlein didn't care about sexual mores.
His protagonists always turned down male offers, and in SiaSL he pretty clearly endorses only straight sex as part of Godliness, even though in the same breath he says reproduction clearly is not very important to human sexuality. He was trying to be progressive and open, but being a straight man of his times, could only get so far. I won't rule out he correctly figured that the hoopla from crossing that line would drown out the rest of his message.
Also, pro-tip: MEN are regarded as chattel and always have been.
LOL. And up is down. I know feeling persecuted makes you happy, but...really.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun May 05, 2019 2:49 pm

brewster wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:45 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:34 pm
Anybody who calls Heinlein homophobic is fucking dumb. Heinlein didn't care about sexual mores.
His protagonists always turned down male offers, and in SiaSL he pretty clearly endorses only straight sex as part of Godliness, even though in the same breath he says reproduction clearly is not very important to human sexuality. He was trying to be progressive and open, but being a straight man of his times, could only get so far.
Also, pro-tip: MEN are regarded as chattel and always have been.
LOL. And up is down. I know feeling persecuted makes you happy, but...really.
Do you go on cruise ships? Thought experiment: if the cruise ship is sinking and there are not enough life boats as was the case in the Titanic disaster, do you think they'd still say "women and children first"? I do.

Children I get. But women before men? Chattel get left behind.

It was even worse for us in the 1960s. Everything people think they know about this is fucking backwards.

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GloryofGreece
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by GloryofGreece » Sun May 05, 2019 8:29 pm

Why is HP Lovecraft beloved by reactionary types ? Is his stuff worth reading really ... Sounds like a disturbed man really.
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Hastur
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by Hastur » Mon May 06, 2019 12:27 am

GloryofGreece wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:29 pm
Why is HP Lovecraft beloved by reactionary types ? Is his stuff worth reading really ... Sounds like a disturbed man really.
If you like the Horror genre you must read some Lovecraft. He is one of the most important early horror writers. His tales are good on their own but the greatness lies in how they are connected. They all inhabit the same world and themes and phenomena reappears, building a comprehensive mythos. That is his most important contribution if you ask me.

As for being loved by reactionaries, in his world civilization is under constant threat. It's old forbidden knowledge lurking under the surface, new scientific discoveries, meddling aliens and ancient gods. He's also a bit of a racist. I guess it comes with the times.

If you have an Audible account you can get all his stories for one credit. This new collection looks great:

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Complete ... B07NRSYGHX

You don't have to read them in any particular order. Start with the best. The Call of Cthulhu, At the Mountains of Madness, The Shadow over Innsmouth, The Rats in the Walls and The Shadow Out of Time.
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GloryofGreece
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by GloryofGreece » Mon May 06, 2019 8:13 am

Hastur wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:27 am
GloryofGreece wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:29 pm
Why is HP Lovecraft beloved by reactionary types ? Is his stuff worth reading really ... Sounds like a disturbed man really.
If you like the Horror genre you must read some Lovecraft. He is one of the most important early horror writers. His tales are good on their own but the greatness lies in how they are connected. They all inhabit the same world and themes and phenomena reappears, building a comprehensive mythos. That is his most important contribution if you ask me.

As for being loved by reactionaries, in his world civilization is under constant threat. It's old forbidden knowledge lurking under the surface, new scientific discoveries, meddling aliens and ancient gods. He's also a bit of a racist. I guess it comes with the times.

If you have an Audible account you can get all his stories for one credit. This new collection looks great:

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Complete ... B07NRSYGHX

You don't have to read them in any particular order. Start with the best. The Call of Cthulhu, At the Mountains of Madness, The Shadow over Innsmouth, The Rats in the Walls and The Shadow Out of Time.
Thank you for the link and descriptions. I don't particularly like horror but have read a lot of classic horror. There's good stories there. Would you say his stories are more violent or more foreboding/suspenseful etc.? I'm not into reading gore for gore sake. Thank you.
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brewster
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by brewster » Mon May 06, 2019 12:05 pm

Horror, like crime, is a genre without legs for me. After I read one, I say "so what?" It might have been an enjoyable read, but I want to be thought provoked as I am by history or SF. Even good historical fiction leaves you with something to chew on. FWIW I have no tolerance for TV police procedurals anymore. Seen 100 you've seen 10,000.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon May 06, 2019 12:07 pm

Good horror is also a mystery story.

I think the same is true of most SF, really. Even good military SF is a mystery as well. Mote in God's Eye for instance is a giant mystery of how this civilization runs and what they agenda they were hiding from the humans.

brewster
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Re: What Book Are You Reading at the Moment?

Post by brewster » Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:07 pm
Good horror is also a mystery story.

I think the same is true of most SF, really. Even good military SF is a mystery as well. Mote in God's Eye for instance is a giant mystery of how this civilization runs and what they agenda they were hiding from the humans.
I've had a standard rant for decades that SF isn't a genre unto itself, it's a genre modifier for ALL other genres. Think of a genre, and it's been done as SF. The context of this rant is that Hollywood thinks SF=action-adventure.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND