2020 election

[Smitty-48]

Now, bear in mind, contrary to popular myth, Ho Chi Minh wanted to avoid this war. So did the Soviets.

Ho Chi Minh said that the priority should be rebuilding the North in the wake of the war against the French.

Ho Chi Minh did not want to send forces to the South.

He said that would simply provoke the Americans and give them an excuse to attack the North.

The Soviets agreed that provoking the Americans was a bad idea.

The Soviet Army was actually gung ho to escalate against the Americans.

However in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis the Soviet political leadership was opposed.

So you've got Ho Chi Minh and the Soviets, not being aggressive at all.

That's why the Chinese backed an internal putsch against Ho Chi Minh to install Le Duan.

[Smitty-48]

Also contrary to popular myth; America was not fighting General Giap.

Because General Giap had also been deposed.

Because General Giap also said attacking the Americans was a bad idea.

So this force that Hanoi is sending south, it's not the Viet Minh.

It's not the army that beat the French at Dien Bien Phu.

Le Duan did not adhere to the Giap strategy.

Le Duan went charging in recklessly.

So what actually happened, was that the US military annihilated them, wave after wave.

[Smitty-48]

It all comes down the media narrative around Tet in 68'.

Tet 68' is the first of a series of massive blunders by Le Duan.

It was catastrophic, they threw everything they had at it, and they told their troops it was going to be a walkover.

So it's like the Somme in World War One. They go over the top jubilantly, and come back shattered after.

And Le Duan did it again. Then he did it again. Self inflicted disasters, one after the next.

Problem being, by this point the media has gotten America to quit.

Just as the North Vietnamese are in the process of blowing themselves up, America is pulling out.

If America had instead stood its ground against all those Le Duan offensives, America would have won the war.

[Smitty-48]

Furthermore, contrary to the media narrative, it was a noble cause.

Because as I say, contrary the narrative, America was not fighting Uncle Ho and the Viet Minh.

America was fighting Le Duan.

And he was the Stalin of Indochina.

And when he won, he did turn it into hell on earth.

To include famine. They were literally starving under the iron rule of Le Duan.

Has anything killed more people than Communist Land Reform?

The biggest catastrophe of them all, came after they ostensibly "won" the war.

[BjornP]

Bear in mind, this was not an accident, this was not a coincidence.

This was the North Vietnamese strategy.

The North Vietnamese said "the side whose soldiers question their orders less, will win"

The North Vietnamese strategy was to co-opt the American media.

To make American soldiers question their orders.

That's how they won.

Dan told me it was unwinnable. Man, I wish Trump dropped like 20 ICBMs on Vietnam as payback for their psyops causing us to lose our defensive war in IndoChina. America only fights defensive wars, and its fucked that these zipperheads poisoned our media.

You’d want to drop bombs on one of the most American-friendly in Asia because of the US government losing face in a war you finished fighting for the French over forty years ago?

You, sir, have some weird priorities...

[Smitty-48]

It's not the same Vietnamese.

They suffered under Le Duan and the Stalinists.

That's why they're not jubilant about winning the war.

They want to forget about the war.

The biggest complaint you here from NVA veterans, is that nobody in Vietnam gives a shit about the war anymore.

[Smitty-48]

South Vietnam gets a bad rap.

Ngo Dinh Diem caused all the problems.

Once he was gone, there was a power vacuum and that made the government useless.

On the other hand, it was actually a very free country.

The chaos in the wake of Diem, created a de facto laissez-faire environment which was like a mini America.

I bet you the vast majority of Vietnamese wish they had that deal now.

[Smitty-48]

The irony was that the American troops were enraged at the South Vietnamese for not fighting the war but instead staying in the cities and trying to make money.

When that was in fact what America winning the war looked like. Strategic victory was already in effect.

King Dollah had already won the war, it was just a question of letting the NVA smash themselves on his ramparts.

[Smitty-48]

This did not sit well with the liberal media tho.

Because what was the narrative?

They love money and are desperate to be a mini America and so the Communists are losing the strategic war?

Nope.

"America is ruining them with America's money, look at all that inflation n' shit, it's a crime!"

[BjornP]

It's not the same Vietnamese.

They suffered under Le Duan and the Stalinists.

That's why they're not jubilant about winning the war.

They want to forget about the war.

The biggest complaint you here from NVA veterans, is that nobody in Vietnam gives a shit about the war anymore.

They have alot to be proud of, so I don't hope the government is actively keeping that part of their history in the dark.

Other than showing respect to those old soldiers and keeping the historical record public, there only so much shit one *should* give, however. The Vietnamese have as much cause to hate America today as Danes have to hate Germany. Respect and honor the past and sacrifice of those who fought, but we don't need to hate everyone our fathers, grandfathers, etc. fought.

Whenever a story about prosecuting old Nazi war criminals comes up in the media, you can always trust it to be an American who tells Europe to just "let the past go" and stop harrassing those poor old guys. You'd think they'd apply that to themselves, particularly when the Vietnamese treated them nothing at all like how the Nazis treated people in occupied Europe?