Best American General of All Time?

[Smitty-48]

LeMay was also one of the last American General's to truly be in command.

It was his war plan, it was his formation, it was LeMay's call, once the NCA gave the go codes.

More authority at his disposal on the battlefield, than Ulysses S. Grant himself.

Lets say we didn't drop Fat Man and Little Boy on the nips. Would firebombing them repeatedly to the point of redundancy like LeMay was doing have caused Japan to surrender eventually without an invasion? If so, how much longer could they have held out? In this thought experiment we are assuming that Russia doesn't declare war on them like it did irl.

Indeed, the Japanese high command did not surrender because of the firebombing nor the bomb, they surrendered because they were holding out hope for the Soviets to intervene on their behalf against the Americans, when it became clear that the Soviets were invading with the Americans, only then did they choose to surrender to the Americans to avoid being overrun by the Soviets.

None the less, was LeMay who put them in this position, as the warfighting capacity was reduced to the point of being overrun. Dropping the bombs was a message to the Soviets, BTFO, the first action of the Cold War.

[Smitty-48]

That's why it was a double tap.

Little Boy was a write off, they had abandoned that design.

But you drop two in rapid succession, to prove it's not a one off but rather a sustained campaign as necessary.

They had twelve loaded up in the pipeline if they needed to keep going.

[heydaralon]

That's why it was a double tap.

Little Boy was a write off, they had abandoned that design.

But you drop two in rapid succession, to prove it's not a one off but rather a sustained campaign as necessary.

They had twelve loaded up in the pipeline if they needed to keep going.

The way I was taught it in school, the Nagasaki mission wasn't going well, that wasn't the original target, but they had to head back so it was either turn Nagasaki into a desert or drop it in the Ocean, so Nagasaki it was. Out of curiosity, why not bomb Tokyo? Nothing left worth hitting at that point?

[Smitty-48]

That's why it was a double tap.

Little Boy was a write off, they had abandoned that design.

But you drop two in rapid succession, to prove it's not a one off but rather a sustained campaign as necessary.

They had twelve loaded up in the pipeline if they needed to keep going.

The way I was taught it in school, the Nagasaki mission wasn't going well, that wasn't the original target, but they had to head back so it was either turn Nagasaki into a desert or drop it in the Ocean, so Nagasaki it was. Out of curiosity, why not bomb Tokyo? Nothing left worth hitting at that point?

Nothing went wrong, Nagasaki was simply the secondary target, the main target was Kokura.

There was a targeting committee, they chose five military industrial targets.

Kokura was a primary, Nagasaki was an alternate.

Tokyo was not one of the targets, didn't meet their criteria threshold.

[heydaralon]

Did the Japanese actually think the Soviets would have their back? I never heard knew that. Seems absolutely insane they'd think that way, but then again it was pretty insane to think we'd just give up after Pearl Harbor. The Russians had a huge blow dealt in 1905, plus they were fighting proxy wars against one another before WW2 in Mongolia. In the Battle of Khalkin Gol Zhukov made a name for himself by using the mongol army to defeat the Japanese by spreading dis-info. He flanked them with a surprise attack, but he left behind pamphlets called "What the Soviet soldier must know about Defense" to trick those slants into thinking that they Mongolians were hunkering down rather than invading.

They have some weird beef over some territorial islands too I think. Idk if that ever got resolved.

[Smitty-48]

The Japanese high command thought that they could cut a deal with Stalin because the Americans and Soviets were already de facto adversaries.

[Smitty-48]

Turns out Stalin should have made the deal.

If he had, Japan would have been a Soviet satellite instead of American.

The Soviets could have walked in without a fight, beating the Americans to Tokyo.

[heydaralon]

Turns out Stalin should have made the deal.

If he had, Japan would have been a Soviet satellite instead of American.

The Soviets could have walked in without a fight, beating the Americans to Tokyo.

Was it something he even gave thought to?

[Smitty-48]

Turns out Stalin should have made the deal.

If he had, Japan would have been a Soviet satellite instead of American.

The Soviets could have walked in without a fight, beating the Americans to Tokyo.

Was it something he even gave though to?

Koba considered all options.

I think he was, in the end, afraid of the Americans.

The Americans dropped the bombs, that deterred Stalin in all respects.

[heydaralon]

Turns out Stalin should have made the deal.

If he had, Japan would have been a Soviet satellite instead of American.

The Soviets could have walked in without a fight, beating the Americans to Tokyo.

Was it something he even gave though to?

Koba considered all options.

I think he was, in the end, afraid of the Americans.

The Americans dropped the bombs, that deterred Stalin in all respects.

Can you see a scenario where he actually got control of Turkey? What was the strategic importance of Greece for the Soviets?