HAPPENING: /Ourguys/ Burning Federal Buildings and Degenerate Art Museums In France

[StCapps]

Why tho?

Why so many troops encircled so fast?

Because Stalin was poised to invade Germany.

So the Soviet troops were in an attack formation and not prepared to defend in depth.

The Germans actually didn't have enough tanks, but in their preemption, they planned for that.

They took the tanks which were supposed to invade Germany, painted an Iron Cross on them, and then turned them back against Moscow.

Fun fact; the Germans used lots of T-34's against their own makers.

They were called "Beutepanzer". Captured Tank.

How close was Russia to invading Germany at the time of Barbarossa in your estimation? Like how much longer could Germany have waited before the Russians pre-empted their pre-emption?

Hard to say.

Basically Stalin was preparing for the last war.

He was expecting the Germans and the French to bleed each other dry like World War One.

How long he expected this to take is not recorded.

None the less one assumes he was expecting it to take a heck of a lot longer than six weeks.

One things for sure, he had all his best troops,armor and combat aircraft, stacked up right on the frontier with Germany.

Think the Germans could have waited until 1942? If so, would they have been better prepared if they had an extra year to build and plan for preemption, or would the that have backfired and played into the Soviets hands?

[Smitty-48]

How close was Russia to invading Germany at the time of Barbarossa in your estimation? Like how much longer could Germany have waited before the Russians pre-empted their pre-emption?

Hard to say.

Basically Stalin was preparing for the last war.

He was expecting the Germans and the French to bleed each other dry like World War One.

How long he expected this to take is not recorded.

None the less one assumes he was expecting it to take a heck of a lot longer than six weeks.

One things for sure, he had all his best troops,armor and combat aircraft, stacked up right on the frontier with Germany.

Think the Germans could have waited until 1942? If so, would they have been better prepared if they had an extra year to build and plan for preemption, or would the that have backfired and played into the Soviets hands?

IIRC, originally, Hitler was planning to go in 45'.

Like before France and Britain entered the war, the Nazis weren't in a rush.

Historians make a big deal about Stalin's reaction to Barbarossa.

His refusal to accept that it was happening.

I don't interpret that as Stalin not thinking there was going to be a war.

I think he just thought he had Hitler fooled and he couldn't believe that Hitler had beat him to the punch.

Once the Germans beat France, I think the clock was ticking.

Hitler preempted Stalin, but not by that much, I don't think they could have waited much longer, and neither did Hitler.

[Smitty-48]

Like pay attention to what Stalin did in 39'.

He agreed to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler.

It was supposed to be a coordinated action, Pact of Steel.

But what does Stalin do?

He doesn't show up on the day.

The Germans invade, but the Soviets hang back for another week.

That was the week where Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland.

But not Russia, because Russia hadn't done anything yet.

The Soviets didn't show up until after Britain, France and Germany were already at war.

All part of the plan.

Stalin thought Hitler was a dupe.

That's why he was shocked when Hitler preempted him in a surprise attack.

[StCapps]

Like pay attention to what Stalin did in 39'.

He agreed to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler.

It was supposed to be a coordinated action, Pact of Steel.

But what does Stalin do?

He doesn't show up on the day.

The Germans invade, but the Soviets hang back for another week.

That was the week where Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland.

But not Russia, because Russia hadn't done anything yet.

The Soviets didn't show up until after Britain, France and Germany were already at war.

All part of the plan.

Stalin thought Hitler was a dupe.

That's why he was shocked when Hitler preempted him in a surprise attack.

Perhaps Stalin was even closer to attacking Germany than we think, and that is another reason why Stalin couldn't believe it, because the Soviets were so close to pre-empting the German attack before Hitler beat them to the punch. Maybe he was like, "If they had just waited a week or a month, we would have hit them first, that motherfucker! Since when is Hitler that lucky? Oh wait, France, god damn it!"

[Smitty-48]

Like pay attention to what Stalin did in 39'.

He agreed to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler.

It was supposed to be a coordinated action, Pact of Steel.

But what does Stalin do?

He doesn't show up on the day.

The Germans invade, but the Soviets hang back for another week.

That was the week where Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland.

But not Russia, because Russia hadn't done anything yet.

The Soviets didn't show up until after Britain, France and Germany were already at war.

All part of the plan.

Stalin thought Hitler was a dupe.

That's why he was shocked when Hitler preempted him in a surprise attack.

Perhaps Stalin was even closer to attacking Germany than we think, and that is another reason why Stalin couldn't believe it, because the Soviets were so close to pre-empting the German attack before Hitler beat them to the punch.

The Soviets literally had tanks which had tracks to get them to the Autobahns, then the tracks could be jettisoned so that they became wheeled tanks, so they could exploit the German roadways to get to Berlin fast.

[StCapps]

Like pay attention to what Stalin did in 39'.

He agreed to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler.

It was supposed to be a coordinated action, Pact of Steel.

But what does Stalin do?

He doesn't show up on the day.

The Germans invade, but the Soviets hang back for another week.

That was the week where Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland.

But not Russia, because Russia hadn't done anything yet.

The Soviets didn't show up until after Britain, France and Germany were already at war.

All part of the plan.

Stalin thought Hitler was a dupe.

That's why he was shocked when Hitler preempted him in a surprise attack.

Perhaps Stalin was even closer to attacking Germany than we think, and that is another reason why Stalin couldn't believe it, because the Soviets were so close to pre-empting the German attack before Hitler beat them to the punch.

The Soviets literally had tanks which had tracks to get them to the Autobahns, then the tracks could be jettisoned so that they became wheeled tanks, so they could exploit the German roadways to get to Berlin fast.

Would be nice if someday we could actually find out just how close the Soviets were to invading Germany, instead of having to resort to speculation.

[Smitty-48]

They were poised. They had their airfields right at the frontier, wherein the planes took off straight into Poland and would be over Germany very shortly after.

After the Germans beat the French, I think Stalin just thought they had more time to prepare, because he thought the Pact of Steel had Hitler fooled, and so Hitler was sitting duck who was not going to move first, so the Soviets had plenty of time to keep building up their forces to make it a rout.

[Smitty-48]

Hitler and Stalin then, was like Putin and Xi now.

Technically enemies, but working together in an alliance of convenience.

How surprised do you think Xi would be, if Putin launched a surprise attack on China out of the blue?

[StCapps]

They were poised. They had their airfields right at the frontier, wherein the planes took off straight into Poland and would be over Germany very shortly after.

After the Germans beat the French, I think Stalin just thought they had more time to prepare, because he thought the Pact of Steel had Hitler fooled, and so Hitler was sitting duck who was not going to move first, so the Soviets had plenty of time to keep building up their forces to make it a rout.

So the longer the Germans waited to preempt, the better position the Soviets would be in to defend the attack, if the Germans still beat them to the punch? That would explain why Hitler attacked as soon as he did.

[Smitty-48]

They were poised. They had their airfields right at the frontier, wherein the planes took off straight into Poland and would be over Germany very shortly after.

After the Germans beat the French, I think Stalin just thought they had more time to prepare, because he thought the Pact of Steel had Hitler fooled, and so Hitler was sitting duck who was not going to move first, so the Soviets had plenty of time to keep building up their forces to make it a rout.

So the longer the Germans waited to preempt, the better position the Soviets would be in to defend the attack, if the Germans still beat them to the punch?

The Soviets didn't go into the defensive, as in the Eastory video, the Germans just started rolling, and the Soviets, not being set up for defense in depth, just kept getting encircled, and then forced to retreat until it reached the outskirts of Moscow, and in the end, it was winter that saved them, and nothing else.