Civil War Doomsday Clock

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C-Mag
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by C-Mag » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:24 am

jediuser598 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:11 am
C-Mag wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:53 am
de officiis wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:40 am


In the strategy of opening up “rights” against an oppressive majority, you need to keep finding smaller and smaller groups to champion while conversely, the scope of the rights continues to expand. This is where that process has brought us.
That's understandable, but seemingly tossing out the Civil Rights of others doesn't make much sense and has damn little to do with Civil Liberties.

Where is the ACLU bringing law suits against big tech for deplatforming dissident voices? Against removing Confederate Statues? Against the federal government for the Bundy's, Hammonds or Tarp Man ?

Maybe I missed it, but it appears the ACLU is most interested making the US open to Non-Citizens getting the rights of US citizens and anal fisting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... f280a41ff8
Yeah, it's history. Just my point.
Again, why are they against Due Process for men in sexual harassment? Where are the cases against deplatforming dissident voices? I'm not arguing the ACLU doesn't have a history in civil rights, I'm saying that like the modern left they've abandoned Civil Rights for Social Justice.
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by PartyOf5 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:51 am

jediuser598 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:59 am
Live and let live is a law argument as well as a cultural statement. A tolerance for diversity. Want to fuck guys? I don't care. Want to engage in religious worship, go ahead. Dye your hair purple or wear purple robes and go to your temple. I don't care if your normal is different than mine, or if your family takes a different shape than mine. You do you. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
Want to drink a large soda in New York? Sorry, the liberal government has decided you are not allowed to do that.
So you're a third trimester or newborn baby and want to live? Sorry, your mother has decided you get to die now.
Want to wear a MAGA hat? We'll either ban you , beat you, or dox you.

More Liberal hypocrisy. It's part of their religion.

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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by DBTrek » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:55 am

Leftist social and economic policies focus on authoritarians controlling the power, the wealth, and the social narrative for "the good of the people/workers". Countless historical examples. Countless examples of leftism working toward the same ends in America today.
It has nothing to do with live and let live.
Everything to do with live-as-we-say.
Facts.

/shrug
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by jediuser598 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:06 pm

C-Mag wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:24 am
Yeah, it's history. Just my point.
Again, why are they against Due Process for men in sexual harassment? Where are the cases against deplatforming dissident voices? I'm not arguing the ACLU doesn't have a history in civil rights, I'm saying that like the modern left they've abandoned Civil Rights for Social Justice.
AUGUST 8, 2017
The ACLU and its affiliates in the District of Columbia and Virginia challenged the Washington area transit system’s advertising restrictions as violations of the First Amendment. The free speech lawsuit follows the rejection of ads from four groups that hail from across the political spectrum.

The case was filed on behalf of the ACLU; women’s health care collective Carafem, which specializes in family planning and abortion care; Milo Worldwide LLC, the company of conservative commentator and writer Milo Yiannopoulos; and animal rights non-profit People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority rejected a series of ACLU ads displaying the text of the First Amendment in English, Spanish, and Arabic; a Carafem ad for medication abortions using what is described as the “10-Week-After Pill”; and several PETA ads suggesting that people “Go Vegan.” Ads for Yiannopoulos’ new book, “Dangerous,” were first accepted by WMATA, then removed from the transit system after riders complained.

The lawsuit argues that parts of the agency’s ad policies violate the First Amendment by discriminating against particular ads and advertisers deemed controversial by WMATA officials. The current guidelines ban ads “intended to influence members of the public regarding an issue on which there are varying opinions,” ads that “support or oppose an industry position or industry goal without any direct commercial benefit to the advertiser,” and ads “intended to influence public policy,” among others.
https://www.aclu.org/cases/aclu-et-al-v ... strictions


AUGUST 24, 2018 | 5:00 PM
It’s no secret that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is no fan of the National Rifle Association. A mailer his campaign sent to New York voters this week proclaims, in bold letters: “If the NRA goes bankrupt, I will remember them in my thoughts and prayers.”

There’s nothing wrong with the governor singling out a political adversary for criticism, or even mockery. That’s just politics, and the NRA itself is no stranger to hardball tactics.

But in a lawsuit the NRA filed against Cuomo this spring, the organization contends that he did more than criticize it. The NRA alleges that Cuomo and top members of his administration abused their regulatory authority over financial institutions to threaten New York banks and insurers that associate with the NRA or other “gun promotion” groups, and that those threats have jeopardized the NRA’s access to basic insurance and banking services in New York.

In the ACLU’s view, targeting a nonprofit advocacy group and seeking to deny it financial services because it promotes a lawful activity (the use of guns) violates the First Amendment. Because we believe the governor’s actions, as alleged, threaten the First Amendment rights of all advocacy organizations, the ACLU on Friday filed a friend-of-the-court brief supporting the NRA’s right to have its day in court.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/n ... cal-speech

December 2018
In December 2018, the ACLU filed a lawsuit challenging New Hampshire’s law against criminal defamation on behalf of a man arrested for insulting police online.

Twenty-five states have laws that make it a crime to publicly say mean things about people, with penalties ranging from fines to imprisonment. These laws violate the First Amendment and are disproportionately used against people who criticize public officials or government employees.

The ACLU represents Robert Frese, who was arrested in May 2018 for violating New Hampshire’s criminal libel law after he posted comments to a news article about a retiring Exeter Police officer. Frese wrote, “This is the dirtiest most corrupt cop I have ever had the displeasure of knowing, he has committed perjury, false charges, conspiracy, false reports to law enforcement.” After the comment was taken down at the police department’s request, Frese posted another comment saying that Exeter’s police chief “covered up for this dirty cop.”

The police dropped the charges after the ACLU of New Hampshire spoke out against Frese’s prosecution.
https://www.aclu.org/cases/frese-v-macd ... mation-law

November 29, 2017
The Supreme Court ruled that the government needs a warrant to access a person’s cellphone location history. The court found in a 5 to 4 decision that obtaining such information is a search under the Fourth Amendment and that a warrant from a judge based on probable cause is required.

In 2011, without getting a probable cause warrant, the government obtained several months’ worth of cell phone location records for suspects in a criminal investigation in Detroit. For one suspect, Timothy Carpenter, the records revealed 12,898 separate points of location data—an average of 101 each day over the course of four months. The Supreme Court heard the case on November 29, 2017.

After Carpenter was convicted at trial, based in part on the cell phone location evidence, he appealed to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. The ACLU, along with the ACLU of Michigan, Brennan Center, Center for Democracy & Technology, Electronic Frontier Foundation, and National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, filed an amicus brief arguing that the government violated the Fourth Amendment when it obtained the location records from Carpenter’s wireless carrier without a warrant.

After a divided panel of the Sixth Circuit held that no warrant is required under the Fourth Amendment, the ACLU became co-counsel with Carpenter’s defense attorney to file a petition for review by the Supreme Court. In June 2017, the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case.
https://www.aclu.org/cases/carpenter-v-united-states
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by jediuser598 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:23 pm

SEPTEMBER 27, 2018
The ACLU has filed a federal lawsuit arguing that an Arizona law requiring all state contractors to certify that they aren’t boycotting Israel violates the First Amendment.

The law, enacted in March 2016, requires that any company that contracts with the state submit a written certification that it is not currently boycotting Israel. The ACLU filed the case on behalf of an attorney and his one-person law office, which contracts with the government to provide legal services to incarcerated individuals.

The Supreme Court ruled decades ago that political boycotts are protected by the First Amendment, and other decisions have established that the government may not require individuals to sign a certification regarding their political expression in order to obtain employment, contracts, or other benefits.

The ACLU represents attorney Mikkel Jordahl, who has had a state contract to provide legal advice to inmates in Coconino County Jail for 12 years. Because of his political views, Jordahl refuses to purchase consumer goods and services offered by companies operating in Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories.

Jordahl wants to extend his boycott to his solely owned law firm, Mikkel (Mik) Jordahl P.C. He also wants to use his law firm to provide legal support to other organizations

engaged in boycotts and related political expression, but the law’s certification requirement prevents state contractors such as Jordahl’s firm from participating in these activities.

Jordahl’s firm must renew its contract with the county every year. When he got the renewal paperwork in October 2016, it included an extra form that he had to sign to certify that the firm “is not currently engaged in a boycott of Israel.” Jordahl signed it under protest, and has made sure to separate his personal boycott from his firm’s activities. Now, in order to renew his contract, Jordahl has again been asked to sign the certification. If he agrees, Jordahl will have to limit his boycott participation. If he refuses, he will put a great deal of his income at risk.

The lawsuit argues that the Arizona law violates the First Amendment for several reasons: it compels speech regarding protected political beliefs, associations, and expression; restricts the political expression and association of government contractors; and discriminates against protected expression based on its content and viewpoint. The lawsuit asks the court to strike down the law and bar state officials from requiring contractors to certify that they are not participating in boycotts of Israel.

The case is currently on appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.
https://www.aclu.org/cases/jordahl-v-br ... tts-israel
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by jediuser598 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:31 pm

PartyOf5 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:51 am
jediuser598 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:59 am
Live and let live is a law argument as well as a cultural statement. A tolerance for diversity. Want to fuck guys? I don't care. Want to engage in religious worship, go ahead. Dye your hair purple or wear purple robes and go to your temple. I don't care if your normal is different than mine, or if your family takes a different shape than mine. You do you. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
Want to drink a large soda in New York? Sorry, the liberal government has decided you are not allowed to do that.
So you're a third trimester or newborn baby and want to live? Sorry, your mother has decided you get to die now.
Want to wear a MAGA hat? We'll either ban you , beat you, or dox you.

More Liberal hypocrisy. It's part of their religion.
Completely ignoring blue laws. In how many states can't I buy liquor on Sunday for purely religious reasons?

We're never going to make progress on the abortion debate, so let's not even get into that.

I see people wearing MAGA hats all the time, I don't ban, beat, or dox them. I don't encourage others to do so. "Bash the Fasc" is the height of illiberalism. Assaulting or intimidating people for using their freedom of speech? Ask Brett Weinstein about that. These idiots are attacking us as well.
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by DBTrek » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:34 pm

Leaked Internal Memo Reveals the ACLU Is Wavering on Free Speech
"Our defense of speech may have a greater or lesser harmful impact on the equality and justice work to which we are also committed," wrote ACLU staffers in a confidential memo obtained by former board member Wendy Kaminer.

It's hard to see this as anything other than a cowardly retreat from a full-throated defense of the First Amendment. Moving forward, when deciding whether to take a free speech case, the organization will consider "factors such as the (present and historical) context of the proposed speech; the potential effect on marginalized communities; the extent to which the speech may assist in advancing the goals of white supremacists or others whose views are contrary to our values; and the structural and power inequalities in the community in which the speech will occur."

The memo also makes clear that the ACLU has zero interest in defending First Amendment rights in conjunction with Second Amendment rights. If controversial speakers intend to carry weapons, the ACLU "will generally not represent them."

https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/21/aclu ... ree-speech
A Pro-Liberty Case for Gun Restrictions
By Jay Stanley, Senior Policy Analyst, ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project
https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-techn ... ur-liberty
The ACLU And Kavanaugh: Myopic Virtue Signalling

Why has the supposedly non-partisan ACLU proudly launched an inflammatory million-dollar ad campaign opposing Brett Kavanaugh? “People have funded us and I think they expect a return,” the organization’s national political director and former Democratic party operative Faiz Shakir told the Washington Post. “It was incumbent upon us to show how we can flex our muscles in trying to persuade our people in the Kavanaugh vote.”

But I doubt that Shakir and others at the ACLU expect its ad to persuade any wavering Senators to vote against confirmation. It is a shoddy, partisan political attack, likely to arouse more sympathy than antipathy for Kavanaugh among the few Senators who don’t already oppose him. It sensationally and unfairly equates him with Bill Cosby, along with Harvey Weinstein, Charlie Rose, Matt Lauer, and Bill Clinton (probably included to provide a veneer of non-partisanship). Comparing Kavanaugh to convicted sex offender Cosby, the ACLU effectively presumes him guilty of a sex crime, mostly on the basis of one credible but unproveable allegation of teenage misconduct. . .

https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/20 ... signalling
The final nail in the ACLU's coffin

The director of the American Civil Liberties Union has now acknowledged what should have been obvious to everybody over the past several years: The ACLU is no longer a neutral defender of everyone’s civil liberties. It has morphed into a hyper-partisan, hard-left political advocacy group. The final nail in its coffin was the announcement that, for the first time in its history, the ACLU would become involved in partisan electoral politics, supporting candidates, referenda and other agenda-driven political goals.

The headline in the June 8 edition of the New Yorker tells it all: “The ACLU is getting involved in elections — and reinventing itself for the Trump era.” The article continues: “In this midterm year, however, as progressive groups have mushroomed and grown more active, and as liberal billionaires such as Howard Schultz and Tom Steyer have begun to imagine themselves as political heroes and eye presidential runs, the ACLU, itself newly flush, has begun to move in step with the times. For the first time in its history, the ACLU is taking an active role in elections. The group has plans to spend more than 25 million dollars on races and ballot initiatives by Election Day, in November.

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-right ... lus-coffin
The A.C.L.U. Is Getting Involved in Elections—and Reinventing Itself for the Trump Era

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... -trump-era
Yep.
The openly partisan, selectively speech-defending, anti-2nd Amendment, openly leftist, Kavanaugh smearing, ACLU.
Not from the mouths of weirdo right wing blogs.
Directly from the mouths of leftist rags like the New Yorker, neutral pubs like The Hill, and the mouth of the ACLU itself.

There's your not-so-live-and-let-live heroes, Jedi.

Which isn't news to most people here, but is apparently news to you.
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C-Mag
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by C-Mag » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:45 pm

Jed, basing the Left support of free speech on the ACLU is shaky ground
Last edited by C-Mag on Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by jediuser598 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:47 pm

Within the A.C.L.U.’s orbit, the figure most associated with the “old guard” is Romero’s predecessor, Ira Glasser, who served as the executive director of the organization from 1978 until 2001. The two men had once been close allies—Glasser had first suggested Romero, then an executive with the Ford Foundation, as a candidate to replace him. But the two had fallen out during the Bush Administration, when Romero was challenged by a faction of the A.C.L.U.’s large and famously disputatious board—a fight that Romero won. When I called Glasser, he said that he had been watching the A.C.L.U.’s election plans with mounting alarm. “There is no question that this is a transformative change in the way in which and the principles upon which the A.C.L.U. has operated from its beginning, in 1920,” Glasser said. “I regard this as a departure which has the capacity to destroy the organization as it has always existed.”

To Glasser, the idea that the organization would spend money to tell voters that one candidate for political office would defend civil liberties and the other would erode them fundamentally misunderstood the relationship between civil liberties and political power. “The problem you get into in politics is that all power is an antagonist of liberty,” Glasser said. The A.C.L.U.’s fights to protect constitutional rights had not only been against the cruel and the racist. Often, the fights had been against politicians who professed to believe in the same values the organization stood for. “Even the greatest civil libertarians are better civil libertarians before they gain power,” Glasser said. The A.C.L.U. had been a product of the progressive movement that arose in the first decades of the twentieth century, yet it spent much of the twentieth century fighting the excesses of that very movement—alcohol and drug prohibition, mental hospitals, the prison as penitentiary, child welfare and foster care. “This whole progressive agenda of kindness and generosity turned out to be an enormous source of violations of civil liberty,” Glasser said. There was no greater progressive than President Franklin Roosevelt, Glasser said, and yet Roosevelt had interned Japanese-American citizens. Ed Koch had been the great hero of the Greenwich Village liberal reformers, and then, as mayor of New York City, “he was a disaster. The N.Y.C.L.U. had its hands full,” Glasser said, referring to the New York Civil Liberties Union. The liberal view is often that, if only the right people get in power, good things will happen. Glasser believes that this view is wrong, that the problem is always power itself.
I'm in agreement with Glasser, they really shouldn't be doing that.

Also in agreement with Nadine Strossen.
HATE dispels misunderstandings plaguing our perennial debates about "hate speech vs. free speech," showing that the First Amendment approach promotes free speech and democracy, equality, and societal harmony. We hear too many incorrect assertions that "hate speech" -- which has no generally accepted definition -- is either absolutely unprotected or absolutely protected from censorship. Rather, U.S. law allows government to punish hateful or discriminatory speech in specific contexts when it directly causes imminent serious harm. Yet, government may not punish such speech solely because its message is disfavored, disturbing, or vaguely feared to possibly contribute to some future harm. When U.S. officials formerly wielded such broad censorship power, they suppressed dissident speech, including equal rights advocacy. Likewise, current politicians have attacked Black Lives Matter protests as "hate speech."

"Hate speech" censorship proponents stress the potential harms such speech might further: discrimination, violence, and psychic injuries. However, there has been little analysis of whether censorship effectively counters the feared injuries. Citing evidence from many countries, this book shows that "hate speech" laws are at best ineffective and at worst counterproductive. Their inevitably vague terms invest enforcing officials with broad discretion, and predictably, regular targets are minority views and speakers. Therefore, prominent social justice advocates in the U.S. and beyond maintain that the best way to resist hate and promote equality is not censorship, but rather, vigorous "counterspeech" and activism.
https://global.oup.com/academic/product ... us&lang=en&#

Old guard vs new guard I guess.
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Re: Civil War Doomsday Clock

Post by TheReal_ND » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:08 pm

The ACLU is on record contemplating giving up free speech if it is deemed to harm people without privilege.