The Armory - Guns, Knives, and Axes

[Smitty-48]

I am pretty sure you didn't lose any Tornadoes to anti-aircraft artillery. Most likely he was shot down by some kind of surface to air missile.

Because Tornado can pull neither g nor aoa, if F-16 you would dodge those by g, if F/A-18 you would dodge by aoa, Tornado could do neither.

[Speaker to Animals]

An F-16 cannot fulfill the same role as their Tornadoes.

F-16 is not survivable. Single engine. No redundant systems. Terrible crash rate.

F-16 is basically a filler. It's a cheap jet you can use for niche roles. For things like SEAD the F-16CJ worked great.

In particular, you were not going to replace Tornadoes for interceptor and ECM with a bloody F-16. Dept. of Naganahappen.

Maybe interdiction roles, but even there the F-16 never performed as well as a true multi-role fighter.

[Speaker to Animals]

I am pretty sure you didn't lose any Tornadoes to anti-aircraft artillery. Most likely he was shot down by some kind of surface to air missile.

Because Tornado can pull neither g nor aoa, if F-16 you would dodge those by g, if F/A-18 you would dodge by aoa, Tornado could do neither.

How do you dodge a missile with high angle of attack? It's fucking racing up your tailpipe. I don't see how angle of attack would matter, though I was just an avionics troop, not a pilot. Maybe there is some way that works. Seems sketchy to me, though.

[Smitty-48]

The Hornet pilot just pulls the jet into a high alpha maneuver, which a missile cannot match.

35 degrees angle of attack at 7.5 g, no SAM can do that.

[Speaker to Animals]

You can push the throttle past mil, light your afterburners, and climb really fast. That's not a high angle of attack, though. A high angle of attack is when you are moving forward, but your nose is pitched up at a high angle relative to your velocity vector. When a jet lands it takes on a high angle of attack to create more lift.

[Speaker to Animals]

High angle of attack:



He's almost traveling in a 90 degree angle from where his nose is pointing.

I am pretty sure that's a good way to get dusted if you have missiles bearing down on you.

[Smitty-48]

The high angle of attack allows an instantaneous turn rate which missiles cannot match.

[Smitty-48]

High angle of attack:



He's almost traveling in a 90 degree angle from where his nose is pointing.

I am pretty sure that's a good way to get dusted if you have missiles bearing down on you.

You don't stall the plane, that Panther is in a lower energy state, that's not the only way to use high alpha.

[Speaker to Animals]

High angle of attack:



He's almost traveling in a 90 degree angle from where his nose is pointing.

I am pretty sure that's a good way to get dusted if you have missiles bearing down on you.

You don't stall the plane, that Panther is in a lower energy state, that's not the only way to use high alpha.

That's literally a high angle of attack.

If you pitch up and move in a straight line in the direction your nose is pointed, then that's a neutral angle of attack. Angle of attack just means the angle at which your lifting surfaces are relative to the airflow (velocity vector).


Just pitching up and burning is not a high angle of attack at all. That's just vertical climbing. But an F-16 can't do that. F-15C can do that because it has a positive thrust-to-weight ratio. I am not sure about a Tornado. It has two engine bays, so I'd imagine it's at least theoretically possible if they install engines with enough thrust.

The old F-15E birds I worked on could not do that because they were loaded down with pods, conformal fuel tanks, and some other stuff. They were called mud hens for a reason.

[Smitty-48]

An F-16 cannot fulfill the same role as their Tornadoes.

F-16 is not survivable. Single engine. No redundant systems. Terrible crash rate.

F-16 is basically a filler. It's a cheap jet you can use for niche roles. For things like SEAD the F-16CJ worked great.

In particular, you were not going to replace Tornadoes for interceptor and ECM with a bloody F-16. Dept. of Naganahappen.

Maybe interdiction roles, but even there the F-16 never performed as well as a true multi-role fighter.

Tornado is less survivable than F-16, Tornado is a bomb truck, F-16 can carry more bombs.