What have the Normans ever done for us?

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18791
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Montegriffo »

How, then, did the identity of the English emerge, given the imposition in 1066 of a continental governing class? Some, such as William the Conqueror's archbishop of Canterbury, said they hoped to learn to be Englishmen. However, such immediate and deliberate adoption of a culture - even if it was whole-hearted - appears uncommon. Rather the assimilation was more gradual, and had many causes of which the following are just three. In part, assimilation resulted from aristocratic families dividing their lands between different branches, with separate English and Continental branches developing. In part it stemmed from inter-marriage with the English. In the late 1170s the royal treasurer could write that 'with the English and Normans living side-by-side and intermarrying, the peoples have become so mingled that no-one can tell - as far as free men are concerned - who is of English and who of Norman descent.'
Together with epics such as The Song of Roland, churches and castles have been essential in forming our vision of the Middle Ages. They are the built images of the first two of the three orders into which writers in the Middle Ages often divided their society: those who pray, those who fight, and those who work. The Normans had an enormous influence on the development of both castles and churches in England. There had been large scale fortified settlements, known as burghs, and also fortified houses in Anglo-Saxon England, but the castle was a Norman importation. Numbers are uncertain, but it seems plausible that about 1,000 had been built by the reign of Henry I (1100-1135).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/no ... n_01.shtml
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image
User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Speaker to Animals »

What is your ethnicity, Monty?
User avatar
TheReal_ND
Posts: 26048
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by TheReal_ND »

The Normans wiped out indegenous history. No one is quite sure why but when they arrived all the native scholars and writers were replaced with French ones. Apparently they are responsible for the reason the English have very little pre Norman folklore. I was just watching a documentary about J.R.R. Tolkien where an Old English professor was lamenting this. Pretty good btw would recommend

User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18791
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Montegriffo »

What is your ethnicity
Part Celt, part Roman, part Anglo-Saxon, part Viking, part Norman - ie British.

Genetically, I am mostly English, part Irish and part Gibraltan.

Culturally I'm a mix of all of the above.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image
User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Speaker to Animals »

You can recapture some of the old culture by reading sources like the Venerable Bede.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede


There are Saxon chronicles for big historical things.

Lots of poetry, like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Canterbury Tales, and so on. Inside those are hidden customs and culture.
User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Speaker to Animals »

Montegriffo wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:57 am
What is your ethnicity
Part Celt, part Roman, part Anglo-Saxon, part Viking, part Norman - ie British.

Genetically, I am mostly English, part Irish and part Gibraltan.

Culturally I'm a mix of all of the above.
I didn't ask for that.

What is your ethnicity, Monty. Do you even recognize it?
User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18791
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Montegriffo »

TheReal_ND wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 am The Normans wiped out indegenous history. No one is quite sure why but when they arrived all the native scholars and writers were replaced with French ones. Apparently they are responsible for the reason the English have very little pre Norman folklore. I was just watching a documentary about J.R.R. Tolkien where an Old English professor was lamenting this. Pretty good btw would recommend

Will watch that later. Was it implied that the Normans deliberately ''wiped out indigenous history'' or was it simply lost or forgotten?
As far as I know, they did not pull down Saxon churches or burn their manuscripts. We still have the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles for example.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image
User avatar
Montegriffo
Posts: 18791
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Montegriffo »

Speaker to Animals wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:59 am
Montegriffo wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:57 am
What is your ethnicity
Part Celt, part Roman, part Anglo-Saxon, part Viking, part Norman - ie British.

Genetically, I am mostly English, part Irish and part Gibraltan.

Culturally I'm a mix of all of the above.
I didn't ask for that.

What is your ethnicity, Monty. Do you even recognize it?
ethnicity
Dictionary result for ethnicity
/ɛθˈnɪsɪti/
noun
noun: ethnicity; plural noun: ethnicities

the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
See answer above.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
Image
User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Speaker to Animals »

Montegriffo wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:09 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:59 am
Montegriffo wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:57 am
Part Celt, part Roman, part Anglo-Saxon, part Viking, part Norman - ie British.

Genetically, I am mostly English, part Irish and part Gibraltan.

Culturally I'm a mix of all of the above.
I didn't ask for that.

What is your ethnicity, Monty. Do you even recognize it?
ethnicity
Dictionary result for ethnicity
/ɛθˈnɪsɪti/
noun
noun: ethnicity; plural noun: ethnicities

the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
See answer above.

That's all very interesting, but your ethnicity is English. Dancing around that fact is ridiculous.

What is particularly ridiculous is your trying to claim ethnicity as a Norman or a fucking Viking when you just in another thread created a lying straw man that I claimed to be English and then proceeded to argue that can't be possible because I am so far removed from my English ancestors.

Are you honest even with yourself??
User avatar
TheReal_ND
Posts: 26048
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by TheReal_ND »

Montegriffo wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:05 pm
TheReal_ND wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 am The Normans wiped out indegenous history. No one is quite sure why but when they arrived all the native scholars and writers were replaced with French ones. Apparently they are responsible for the reason the English have very little pre Norman folklore. I was just watching a documentary about J.R.R. Tolkien where an Old English professor was lamenting this. Pretty good btw would recommend

Will watch that later. Was it implied that the Normans deliberately ''wiped out indigenous history'' or was it simply lost or forgotten?
As far as I know, they did not pull down Saxon churches or burn their manuscripts. We still have the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles for example.
The professor didn't imply either he said it was just a case where for some reason local writers disappeared and they were all replaced by French which was partly to blame for losing so much local traditions that Tolkien lamented England had a dearth of. The other reason was the industrial revolution hit England too soon inasmuch that by the time Grimm started collecting fairy tales, the English decided to try and do the same but by that time most of it had been lost due to industrialization and the uprooting of peasant life.