Preparing for Uncertainty and Self Reliance

[SuburbanFarmer]

I love the idea of "produce local", but the orange thing seems dubious to me. At least for now transport costs are marginal for any item of value that can keep any length of time so it doesn't need to be air shipped, like flowers. I had a long chat with the beer manager at our local huge booze store that has a million microbrews. I was asking how it is that the local stuff can't undercut stuff from the west coast, never mind what comes from Europe, and he said the shipping just isn't significant enough to make a difference in the retail cost. I still tend to buy local brews, at least in state or nearby. Also weird is how the farmer's market produce is at least as expensive as the supermarket, with no middlemen or distant transport. Even "pick your own" apples are as expensive as the market with no picking or transport cost. No "wins" wherever you turn.

Works the same as tariffs. If I can sell my apples at the same price as the guy that shipped his 300 miles, then I will. You (consumer) get the benefit of higher quality (organic and local), but no savings.

[TheReal_ND]

The emphais on local should be underlined. The problem with the organic industry, well there are many, but one of them is that it is regulated by the FDA or some such nonsense beuracracy. Well this is good on the face of it but what you are actually getting is some kind of produce produced outside of the US nine times out of ten. They are supposed to follow our regulations for what qualifies as "organic" but who the fuck is checking? Nobody cares. They sign the paperwork and claim it's organic and the USDA slaps a neat little sticker on it.

Boom

That is what all of whole foods, the hipster grocery store that costs 200 bucks for ten pounds of groceries is.

But it feels so good

Especially with that nigh meaningless FDA seal of approval. That said, American organic growers are under quite a bit more scrutiny. There is a very real threat of being taken to court for defrauding consumers if their neighbor rats on them or they fail a random test.

Well now that we have established 90% of the organic industry is a giant fraud, to what purpose is it even a thing? I will tell you right now. It was established once we discovered the process for fertilizing crops with petroleum byproducts. This was in like 1920-1930 or something. Think Rockefeller. Well some farmers were like "no that's wrong, crops need to be fertilized by manure." They were actually wrong though in a way. Yes it creates a more sustainable closed loop with less pollution but it isn't inherently any healthier.


ALL OF THAT SAID

I am unsure where the organic industry and pesticides have any conflicts per the FDA. I actually worry far more about glyphostate than how the crops are fertilized.

[C-Mag]

This man is meta if that term is to mean a damned thing. He's growing tropical fruits in fucking Nebraska.

I think nurseries are the future for the small grower. You can make a fair income if you can identify a good niche market in your area. Also be able to grow quite a lot of food.

$0.80 per day in energy costs for that entire greenhouse.

His profit margin is more than ten times what a Florida orange grower gets.

Now I know why most Heat Pump systems don't work well in my area. Most are based on several 2 inch lines and don't gain enough heat value. This is pretty awesome. Going to have to consider this.

Need to do this Micro-Brew style and bring fruit and veggie production back local.

Nice Find Doc!

[C-Mag]

My thought is this: people might say some area is a terrible climate to grow certain things, so grow other things; but to me that just means if you can figure out how to grow those things efficiently in that region, then you have a niche market and can do well for yourself.

Yeah. I thought it was really interesting that the old timer had found sub tropical crops actually did better in Nebraska. The market for my area I first thought of was Cucumbers...….. you can't buy a decent Cucumber here in the Winter.

[Speaker to Animals]

I love the idea of "produce local", but the orange thing seems dubious to me. At least for now transport costs are marginal for any item of value that can keep any length of time so it doesn't need to be air shipped, like flowers. I had a long chat with the beer manager at our local huge booze store that has a million microbrews. I was asking how it is that the local stuff can't undercut stuff from the west coast, never mind what comes from Europe, and he said the shipping just isn't significant enough to make a difference in the retail cost. I still tend to buy local brews, at least in state or nearby. Also weird is how the farmer's market produce is at least as expensive as the supermarket, with no middlemen or distant transport. Even "pick your own" apples are as expensive as the market with no picking or transport cost. No "wins" wherever you turn.

As long as he can sell for the same price as Florida oranges, he makes a killing. He has few distribution costs and his houses are far more energy and water efficient than some large grove in Central Florida.

He is not going to pull the huge revenue of a large grower, but his margin is likely much better.

What he shows is that average people can compete with large farms, orchards, etc. if they focus on efficiency and find the right niche. They can compete very well.

That farmer in the second video is likely living on a solid middle class income by efficiently farming 1.5 acres and keeping required labor costs down by only needing a handful of workers. I do not know his background, but he was talking almost like a software engineer when it came to process improvements and targeting bottlenecks, etc.

[Speaker to Animals]

Another thing.. I wonder if you can get more than one harvest per year like that. I once grew dwarf apple trees in pots indoors and they would bloom 2-3 times per year inside. They didn't know what season it was at all. It might be possible to fuck with certain plants by tweaking light and temperature to convince them it is spring.

Just being able to get them to produce a month earlier might help you maximize profit by getting your produce to market before others.

[SuburbanFarmer]

He mentioned getting a double harvest from his fig trees.

[Montegriffo]

I love the idea of "produce local", but the orange thing seems dubious to me. At least for now transport costs are marginal for any item of value that can keep any length of time so it doesn't need to be air shipped, like flowers. I had a long chat with the beer manager at our local huge booze store that has a million microbrews. I was asking how it is that the local stuff can't undercut stuff from the west coast, never mind what comes from Europe, and he said the shipping just isn't significant enough to make a difference in the retail cost. I still tend to buy local brews, at least in state or nearby. Also weird is how the farmer's market produce is at least as expensive as the supermarket, with no middlemen or distant transport. Even "pick your own" apples are as expensive as the market with no picking or transport cost. No "wins" wherever you turn.

Farmers markets and farm shops are expensive here too. The quality is much higher though.
When you are buying veg on the day they were pulled up you can really taste the difference.
The cheap stuff in the supermarkets could be days or even weeks old.

[C-Mag]

Good Stuff Team. I've started an off shoot discussion about labor and transport costs here
https://martinhash.com/forums/viewtopic ... 35#p235035

[brewster]

As long as he can sell for the same price as Florida oranges, he makes a killing. He has few distribution costs and his houses are far more energy and water efficient than some large grove in Central Florida.

This is the part I have a hard time with. The capitalization of the Florida grove is far, far less since there's no structure whatsoever, and the energy involved is really just spraying and other maintenance. They get a fair amount of rain in FL, often daily, so I don't know even how much irrigation needs to be done. We hear of frost hazards, but not every year.

Most of the greenhouse crops I hear about locally are herbs, tomatoes and other very high value stuff that puts a premium on being super fresh. Nothing that is commodity in any form like oranges are.