MartyrMade

[Speaker to Animals]

Fifth Column podcast had good things to say about Fukiyama.

[heydaralon]

and some fellows named Fukuyama

I like Fukuyama...
The "end of history" remark has been totally taken out of context.
His "Origin of Political Order" series is top shelf.

In my opinion, the remark was not taken out of context though. The martyrmade guys made that argument too, but I think he quickly saw how rapidly his triumphalist vision was not coming to pass, so he made some serious qualifications. He also said awhile back that Transhumanism made him rethink his ideas. Which makes sense. From one Utopian Idea to Another. In any case, doesn't he kind of hold up Denmark as the "ideal society" in his latest books?

[TheReal_ND]

I heard he presents very respectably.

[heydaralon]

Fifth Column podcast had good things to say about Fukiyama.

I've read some interviews where he criticizes Marxism and Postmodernism which is aweome, but he is a hack imo. Just another academic Utopian thinker who believes that the riddle of history has been solved.

[heydaralon]

If you unpack it, thinking the world will end with a peaceful Market-based democracy and social democracy is just as silly as thinking it will end with global communism. Same utopian delusions, repeatedly disproved. In 50 years, some academic with political clout will write a bestseller that mercantilism and empire with slavery are the best economic/political system and that it is the ideal/endpoint for society. Yet Hitory moves on as it always does.

[heydaralon]

If you want some kind of transcendent world changing view guiding you, just go to fucking church. Seriously. Traditional religion has filled that role in man forever. At least religious people admit that their beliefs are an act of faith. What really annoys the ever loving shit out of me is when these smug academics act like we are on the verge of not having the same exact moral/scarcity/conflict dilemnas that humans have always faced throughout history because of some trendy new polisci, econ, or gadget bullshit. It is a fantasy, and not even a new one. Been tried out with many different variants, and they never solve the problems. Just pick up a Bible or a Quaran, Tibetan book of the dead or whatever and get your religion that way. No need in selling us a bill of goods with your make believe bullshit that we are this close to escaping history. Ridiculous.

[TheReal_ND]

I agree. Nothing going on right now wasn't written about in the book of Enoch. The entire state of our society, however degenerate it is, has happened before. There is nothing new under the sun.

Anyway I enjoy the new found rebelliousness that Christianiaty has found again because society is so sick they have become counter culture again lol. One hang up I have with some of the newer Christian Identity ideas springing up is the insistence they are the true Jews. I'm so sick of Christians constantly trying to define themesleves in terms of the Old Testament. I love the Old Testament. I all of that but damnit dude, this isn't what Christendom is. Maybe I'm still trying to figure it out as someone that is interested in going to church again if it wasn't so full of foreighners. Maybe I'm still trying to figure out what being a Christian really is but it's not being like fucking Jews. It was a religion for US. It defines US. Not some desert tribe.

But anyway I like the interesting ethno-nationalistic, Christian Identity intersectionality. I don't like this, "we are the real Jews" garbage.

[heydaralon]

looooooool. Fukuyama uses the exact same thought process as Marxists. If you replace Communism with Capitalism and Democracy, they are identical. Identical. What a hack... How was this guy ever taken seriously?



I wish Fukuyama's parents had read this book when he was born, rather than allow him to write his own...

[DrYouth]

looooooool. Fukuyama uses the exact same thought process as Marxists. If you replace Communism with Capitalism and Democracy, they are identical. Identical. What a hack... How was this guy ever taken seriously?



I wish Fukuyama's parents had read this book when he was born, rather than allow him to write his own...

Have you read Fukuyama's "origins of political order"?
It doesn't sound like you have.
The book is tight.

His historical examples are potent.
I learned a ton about the origins of post tribal civilizations and how their political organizations led to the break from tribalism.
He goes in detail over these transformations in China, India, the Middle East and Europe...
The role of burocracies in china, religious orders in India, the janissaries in the middle east and christianity in Europe...
Ultimately it was Europe and Christianity that had the most success in undermining tribalism and developing the rule of law and non-tribal institutions and therefore the most effective political order... maximized under the British and less successful in the Spanish and Russian Empires...
I mean he makes sense of the world we live in. The guy is worth his salt.

[GloryofGreece]

This episode was real good. It was what HH was like the first 40 or so episodes but it was a conversation. Im jealous that Cooper has a better understanding of the Illiad than me. He's only suppose to understand Spengler more than me! Haha. When they really get going about the utility of " ransom" and civilization vs barbarism things were captivating.

I love the Sicilain Expedition for the simple fact that it's highly illustrative of the irrationality of man. And Cooper knows his Greek plays as well. Years ago he and I had a back and forth correspondence about the difference between Shakespeare and Greek plays.
True story ...haha.

Which brings be to their aside on lying which again was excellent. If a society doesn't know what it's values are then they are in deep trouble.

It is shocking when you realize the Athenians were so divergent in politcal oppjnions and how that played out in theatre even during war. Some people really didint think the destruction of Melos was nessasary or good and they voiced it during war time.