Brexit

[Speaker to Animals]

We need to redo the midterm elections. If democrats drag their feet, then they hate democracy.

[BjornP]

Who determines what is information vs fear mongering?

Or maybe this would be more to the point: What mechanism prevents a government from sending votes back to the public until they get the desired result and then claiming "NOW the voters are properly informed and made the right decision". And how is a system without such a mechanism different from totalitarianism?

It has probably never entered Monte's mind that it might be him that is the victim of fear mongering.

No one has been able to show that leaving the UK will be better for the economy than staying.
No one has even been able to come up with an acceptable plan of how to leave.
Many have shown that crashing out with no deal will be catastrophic.
Project fear is a conspiracy theory concocted by people with no argument.

"Better for the economy" is not always such a great argument, Monte. You mentioned in this or some other thread to StA recently you went to anti-apartheid protests when you were young. Well, if the afrikaans had stayed in power the SA could have been better, too. Those sanctions back then weren't "good for the economy", either... so... maybe realize that that particular argument has its limitations?

[C-Mag]

We need to redo the midterm elections. If democrats drag their feet, then they hate democracy.

Yes, people are more informed now.

[Montegriffo]

It has probably never entered Monte's mind that it might be him that is the victim of fear mongering.

No one has been able to show that leaving the UK will be better for the economy than staying.
No one has even been able to come up with an acceptable plan of how to leave.
Many have shown that crashing out with no deal will be catastrophic.
Project fear is a conspiracy theory concocted by people with no argument.

"Better for the economy" is not always such a great argument, Monte. You mentioned in this or some other thread to StA recently you went to anti-apartheid protests when you were young. Well, if the afrikaans had stayed in power the SA could have been better, too. Those sanctions back then weren't "good for the economy", either... so... maybe realize that that particular argument has its limitations?

Sure, some people voted out purely on grounds of immigration.
I have always said that my reasons for wanting to stay were solely due to the economic benefits of membership.
Incidentally, one of the lies told was that we could end free movement of people while staying in the customs union. That was as big as the lie on the bus.
How many of those voters would change their minds if they had known that option was a fairies and unicorns utopia?
How many of the original leave voters would have voted differently if they had known about the £40 billion divorce bill? Not one single leave campaigner mentioned that.
How many of the voters who were convinced that we could have a Norway style exit and have our cake and eat it would have voted differently if they had been told that would still leave us obliged to honour EU regs and free movement?
Remember, the margin of victory was tiny and only a small percentage of people voting differently or staying home would have resulted in a different result.
Now armed with more information, how would those lied to vote given another chance.
There was no consensus amongst the leave vote for any one type of exit from the EU yet the remain voters all agreed that one single option was best and that was the deal we already had.
If you truly want to know what the will of the people is then there can be no way of finding out what it is other than another peoples vote.

[Montegriffo]

We need to redo the midterm elections. If democrats drag their feet, then they hate democracy.

Yes, people are more informed now.

That argument is as valid as saying ''the people voted for Obama in 2012, they have spoken and having another vote in 2016 is undemocratic. Obama for life.''

[Speaker to Animals]

We need to redo the midterm elections. If democrats drag their feet, then they hate democracy.

Yes, people are more informed now.

That argument is as valid as saying ''the people voted for Obama in 2012, they have spoken and having another vote in 2016 is undemocratic. Obama for life.''

Two different elections. We want redos like you have. What a fucking farce. Will your masters just hold elections endlessly until people finally give up and vote for more globalism and jihadi rape?

[DBTrek]

I think we've firmly established that Monte is good with thwarting and abusing the democratic process when things look likely to work out his preferred way.
Very human.
Not very enlightened.

Certainly makes it difficult to speak down to others from any kind of high horse.

/shrug

[Montegriffo]

People being given a say in determining their future based on all the available information is un-democratic according to the man who fights for the right to stay uninformed about the environmental consequences of the products he buys.
/shrug

[DBTrek]

People being given a say in determining their future based on all the available information is un-democratic according to the man who fights for the right to stay uninformed about the environmental consequences of the products he buys.
/shrug

You can stretch the truth as far as you like and misrepresented old arguments till the cows come home.
Doesn't really change who you clearly are, or what you clearly believe.

[C-Mag]

Is Theresa May going to get the axe now that she's failed so miserably?

It occurs to me that you got your second vote on BREXIT and it failed too. The BREXIT plan May put together had so many trojan horses built in that it would have effectively nullified the peoples vote on BREXIT. The English Reps voted and said, no T-May, you don't get to do that, we actually want a real BREXIT.