Let us talk about religion, but not in the way you think.

[heydaralon]

Religion doesn’t necessarily involve a deity, so any belief system is a religion.

Sounds like some relativism to me.

Some traditional religions don't have a deity, so I'm not sure what your point is. If you strip these current systems down to their core beliefs, it is pretty obvious what is going on here.

For instance, Ray Kurzweil might be heavily into computers and tech, but the Singularity is very clearly a religious idea. Wanting the soul to leave the body and end up in some kind of everlasting digital utopia sounds pretty religious to me.

Wanting to use gene tech to create perfect physical, moral, and intellectual humans seems downright messianic.

The list goes on. All these systems generally assume people are rational and can be converted to this way of thinking, which is itself another myth.

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

You mean that everyone believes in/hopes for something greater than themselves? That's pretty much all of humanity, yes.

[heydaralon]

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

You mean that everyone believes in/hopes for something greater than themselves? That's pretty much all of humanity, yes.

I mean most people, not hyper rational atheists like you of course.

[brewster]

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

I heard a guy in a podcast interview say spirituality is having questions, religion is having answers. I liked that a lot. So, using that: no, not everyone is religious.

[heydaralon]

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

I heard a guy in a podcast interview say spirituality is having questions, religion is having answers. I liked that a lot. So, using that: no, not everyone is religious.

I heard a guy on a podcast interview say, Good thing we are not using that, and that distinction is utterly meaningless. Many traditional religions also do not claim to have answers. In fact, a big part of many religions is practice, which is considered more essential than belief. You, like, everyone else on this board is a Liberal (big L). The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact. I feel like I have made these points on another thread, possibly more than one, and what ends up happening is the resident atheists on here go into denial mode like clockwork.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Everyone is religious in some way or another.

I heard a guy in a podcast interview say spirituality is having questions, religion is having answers. I liked that a lot. So, using that: no, not everyone is religious.

I heard a guy on a podcast interview say, Good thing we are not using that, and that distinction is utterly meaningless. Many traditional religions also do not claim to have answers. In fact, a big part of many religions is practice, which is considered more essential than belief. You, like, everyone else on this board is a Liberal (big L). The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact. I feel like I have made these points on another thread, possibly more than one, and what ends up happening is the resident atheists on here go into denial mode like clockwork.

Not denying that the ideas were born out of a largely Christian society, and that Christianity influenced them, but... what does that mean for you? Non-believers be silenced, because we are a theocracy?

[brewster]

The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact.

Uhh, I think my Jewish forebears would beg to differ. And remember, JC was a Jewboy. I can't see how you can separate practice from answers. Excepting true Buddhism, most religions tell people what they must do to make God(s) happy and be nice to them. And even Buddhists can lose their shit like the rioting priests did in Myanmar. Many people, like my wife, find the spiritual core in the usual liturgy of "God, you're so great, don't hurt me, thanks", but that's personal rather than institutional.

[heydaralon]

I heard a guy in a podcast interview say spirituality is having questions, religion is having answers. I liked that a lot. So, using that: no, not everyone is religious.

I heard a guy on a podcast interview say, Good thing we are not using that, and that distinction is utterly meaningless. Many traditional religions also do not claim to have answers. In fact, a big part of many religions is practice, which is considered more essential than belief. You, like, everyone else on this board is a Liberal (big L). The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact. I feel like I have made these points on another thread, possibly more than one, and what ends up happening is the resident atheists on here go into denial mode like clockwork.

Not denying that the ideas were born out of a largely Christian society, and that Christianity influenced them, but... what does that mean for you? Non-believers be silenced, because we are a theocracy?

Not at all.

Its just interesting to me how in this day in age belief in Christian ideas are rarely discussed (certainly not among anyone my age that I know), yet no one questions Liberalism or any of these other bastardizations of it, which would sort of be the logical conclusion right? I like these ideas, I think they are fine ideas. I haven't been to church in almost a decade, so I'd be lying if I said I was a Christian (or a good one anyway lol). What I have been noticing though is that as Christianity is on the wane among Americans, and the West, the sacred new beliefs we have replaced it with are becoming increasingly repulsive. This Social Justice stuff in all its forms really is just like Christianity. It has original sin, a strict Orthodoxy, idols that need to smashed, sinners that need to be punished, and purifying rituals. The globalism in all its forms seems to me to be very utopian and messianic as well. Venerating diversity for diversity's sake, change for change's sake etc. But more than that, modern life to me feels very empty. Every time modernity undermines some aspect of traditional religion, it creates a void. And that void gets filled with something.

I think a big problem with modern culture is the repeated attempts to remove man away from belief. It doesn't work of course, but what ends up happening is that people stop realizing that their beliefs are such and assuming they are facts, which in my opinion is exactly where we are right now. There are some folks who think that commerce and civic nationalism can keep the cultural problems we are coming up against dormant. I hope this is true, but historically, when one old belief system gets eradicated, another worse one takes its place.

[heydaralon]

The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact.

Uhh, I think my Jewish forebears would beg to differ. And remember, JC was a Jewboy.

Your Jewish forebearers like Jesus? The guy in the New Testament of the Bible, a famous Christian book? Your Jewish forebearers like the ones who wrote the Old Testament of the Bible, a famous Christian book? Pretty stupid point Brewster. John Locke, the father of Liberalism, openly based his ideas and arguments from Christianity. This is a historical fact.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I heard a guy on a podcast interview say, Good thing we are not using that, and that distinction is utterly meaningless. Many traditional religions also do not claim to have answers. In fact, a big part of many religions is practice, which is considered more essential than belief. You, like, everyone else on this board is a Liberal (big L). The basic ideas you take for granted about the individual, society etc are from a belief system that explicitly and fundamentally derives from Christianity. This is a historical fact. I feel like I have made these points on another thread, possibly more than one, and what ends up happening is the resident atheists on here go into denial mode like clockwork.

Not denying that the ideas were born out of a largely Christian society, and that Christianity influenced them, but... what does that mean for you? Non-believers be silenced, because we are a theocracy?

Not at all.

Its just interesting to me how in this day in age belief in Christian ideas are rarely discussed (certainly not among anyone my age that I know), yet no one questions Liberalism or any of these other bastardizations of it, which would sort of be the logical conclusion right? I like these ideas, I think they are fine ideas. I haven't been to church in almost a decade, so I'd be lying if I said I was a Christian (or a good one anyway lol). What I have been noticing though is that as Christianity is on the wane among Americans, and the West, the sacred new beliefs we have replaced it with are becoming increasingly repulsive. This Social Justice stuff in all its forms really is just like Christianity. It has original sin, a strict Orthodoxy, idols that need to smashed, sinners that need to be punished, and purifying rituals. The globalism in all its forms seems to me to be very utopian and messianic as well. Venerating diversity for diversity's sake, change for change's sake etc. But more than that, modern life to me feels very empty. Every time modernity undermines some aspect of traditional religion, it creates a void. And that void gets filled with something.

Interesting that you only see one political side as 'replacing religion'. Yet, the sacred beliefs of US Army for God, Flags, and Guns are not the same thing.

I think a big problem with modern culture is the repeated attempts to remove man away from belief. It doesn't work of course, but what ends up happening is that people stop realizing that their beliefs are such and assuming they are facts, which in my opinion is exactly where we are right now. There are some folks who think that commerce and civic nationalism can keep the cultural problems we are coming up against dormant. I hope this is true, but historically, when one old belief system gets eradicated, another worse one takes its place.

So... Judaism was superior to Christianity?