Socialism

[brewster]

People go to an ER for primary care when they don't have health insurance.

People walk when they don't have cars.
That's not a justification for forcing everyone else to buy the walkers new cars.

Your flawed belief is that the uninsured, whether they be unemployed, poorly employed, or simply choosing not to insure, do not use the healthcare system. They do. That young healthy dude who didn't think he needed healthcare may be on the public dime for life when he crashes his motorcycle. Most people get healthcare, especially catastrophic kind. The question is only whether it's in the stupidest, most expensive way possible, or not.

[DBTrek]

Your flawed belief is that the uninsured, whether they be unemployed, poorly employed, or simply choosing not to insure, do not use the healthcare system.

That's not my belief at all.
But I understand your need to make up another flimsy argument to attack, your own being so shoddy.

[brewster]

Your flawed belief is that the uninsured, whether they be unemployed, poorly employed, or simply choosing not to insure, do not use the healthcare system.

That's not my belief at all.
But I understand your need to make up another flimsy argument to attack, your own being so shoddy.

You object to single payer as being forced to pay for other people's healthcare. The fact is you are already doing so. Where do I have this wrong?

[TheReal_ND]

It's actually true. We are already paying for immigrant health care as well. Of course formalizing it would cause an epedimic on the border as it becomes overrun like California (which chose not to do single payer as it would put them trillions in debt.) I can't help but wonder at any rate what kind of sword of Damocles is hanging over our heads. People concerned about immigration are told it should be single payer health care. The truth is, it would probably work in a nation that doesn't suffer from uncontrolled immigration.

[DBTrek]

You object to single payer as being forced to pay for other people's healthcare. The fact is you are already doing so. Where do I have this wrong?

I object to more than one thing. I object to paying others healthcare, and I object to paying increasingly higher amounts.
You want to increase the amount I pay, and justify it by pointing out that I'm already being forced to pay. That's silly.

This is where you launch into your fantasy spiel about how "Oh-no-no, under single payer you'll actually pay less - just like under Communism the workers will actually own the means of production and share the wealth according to the needs".

It's not true. Democrats had all the power to reform health care, without the support of a single republican, and what they gave us was Obamacare, which was more expensive. Republicans have had the power to implement their healthcare vision, without needing a single Democrat vote, and they let Obamacare stand. So whatever your flavor of fantasy healthcare is - American reality has already said nope. Neither party has a plan that results in me paying less, so stop fucking around with healthcare already. Come talk to me when a third party takes power.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Insurance companies hold near-absolute power over domestic policy. Just as the MIC does over foreign policy.

[Zlaxer]

Insurance companies hold near-absolute power over domestic policy. Just as the MIC does over foreign policy.

No silly - the proletariat has the power now. Give it an election cuycle or two. The DNC is hell bent on tyrany of the majority.

They’ll tax what’s left of middle America out of their homes then nationalize the banks at the appropriate time - then distribute the newfound loot to the party faithfuls.

[DrYouth]

Democrats had all the power to reform health care, without the support of a single republican, and what they gave us was Obamacare, which was more expensive. Republicans have had the power to implement their healthcare vision, without needing a single Democrat vote, and they let Obamacare stand. So whatever your flavor of fantasy healthcare is - American reality has already said nope. Neither party has a plan that results in me paying less, so stop fucking around with healthcare already. Come talk to me when a third party takes power.

Democrats caved to the insurance companies.
This is what happened.
Noone had the guts to cut them down. They are the winners. The American citizen is the loser.

[DBTrek]

Democrats caved to the insurance companies.
This is what happened.
Noone had the guts to cut them down. They are the winners. The American citizen is the loser.

Fun fact - over the past few years I’ve pointed out that Democrats had all the power to implement their healthcare system, and we got Obamacare.

Without fail, every time, someone has stepped in to “explain” how it’s not really the Dems fault. Usually I’m offered the non-sensical excuse that “Dems we’re trying to appease Republicans” - which is extra stupid since the legislation passed without a single Republican vote.

Now Dr. Y is pointing the finger of blame at insurance companies.

Anyone care to guess how many excuses I’m offered when pointing out that Republicans has the same power and let Obamacare stand?

Just one more point of data in the left/right paradigm to consider. The left doesn’t even hold their representatives responsible for legislation they pass solely on their own.

/shrug

[C-Mag]

Democrats caved to the insurance companies.
This is what happened.
Noone had the guts to cut them down. They are the winners. The American citizen is the loser.

Not Accurate. They took money from the insurance companies. Obamacare is a Health Insurance policy, not a Health Care policy it's two different things.

We need to smash the Democrat Bullshit about them being for the little guy and hating big business. It's a huge lie. They are so closely woven with big business you can't tell them apart. Look at the Obama Administration and his economic policies. Since 2008, the big business thrived, the rich got richer and the middle class and poor got poorer. Those are facts. Plenty of pay off for big business, fewer jobs for average folks. What were we told, you didn't build that, those jobs aren't coming back, embrace the suck, this is your life, listen to your betters.

Trump has improved middle and lower income, and increased jobs. The Dem didn't cave, they ran to Wall Street and held them up, forced deals and enriched themselves.