Urban vs. Rural; What's to be done?

[heydaralon]

I’m not an open borders guy. But the wall is an idiotic idea.

We already have a massive border patrol agency that fails regularly. Dump a little more into the bucket, if you want. But the fact is, that we have a 2,000 mile border that’s nearly impossible to blockade completely. That’s just the nature of our geography. If you want it sealed, you need to annex Mexico, and draw a line across Central America.

You can have a benevolent welfare state (at least until the money runs out) or you can have a border that is optional. It makes me sick to my stomach that our own citizens are being sold down the river like this. This isn't 19th century Horace Greeley expand westward America. We cannot ease these social problems interally by just moving out west. We do not need draftees for a civil war. We certainly don't need people coming here just to abuse our welfare systems. We do not need millions of people who will not or cannot work, especially when there are numerous struggling Americans atm.You are kidding yourself if you think just letting these people in to work as slaves and ignoring this issue will solve the problem. It will not. I would rather pay waaay more for produce at the supermarket than have a restless, politically, culturally, and linguistically alien population living in our midst. That is a powder keg waiting to happen. We keep giving amnesty to these people, but its never the last amnesty. Our real unemployment rates are far higher than the ones you see on the Department of Labor. We have unemployment and underemployment rampant in our country. Religious vs Secular factionalism, partisan factionalism, sexual factionalism, gender factionalism, and regional factionalism as well as the perenial economic factionalism as being the defining characteristics of contemporary America.Once you add an economic crash, and a shrinking labor pool, you have a recipe for a failed fucking state at best. At worst you get a civil war. And for what? I don't vote for fucking Congressmen or Presidents to do what is in the best interest of central American illegals or bankers who can make more by getting a glut of low wage labor. I vote for them to look out for American fucking interests. If these democrats want to help out Mexicans, then they should run for office in fucking Mexico or Honduras. Is our country in such strong shape that we can no longer focus on our own problems, and spend our finite resources helping non US citizens?

When you children enter the labor market in how ever many years, do you genuinely feel that they will be better served by higher taxes paying for legal immigrants and DREAMERS+anchor babies on welfare, plus a bunch of illegals in their border? Imagine what their taxes will be like. Imagine what their quality of life will be like, and their job prospects. With an infinite pool of labor, all the stuff you hate about corporatism will be magnified. The 5 day 40 hour work week, overtime etc can and will be rendered obsolete, because there will always be someone else willing and able to do your job. Ironically, the dropping of wages will also take place while a simultaneous growth and expansion of government and the welfare state. Well how does that work? It doesn't. Not for long lol. We are not united by shit in this country, anymore, except money and language, and eventually it won't even be language. I can't even imagine how fucked up it will be by the time I'm my parents age.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Move off the bottom, and it’s no longer an issue. This is a serious problem for the illiterate, or incompetent. That’s all.

Those guys aren’t competing for anything that even requires a diploma, let alone actual skills. You compete based on merit, not labor scarcity. To say otherwise, you sound no different than a welfare queen begging for gibs.

[GloryofGreece]

There's a tendency in recorded history for downward mobility if you will. In otherwords what happened was there were basicslly dis and eugenic effects of population flucuations and other social developments change , what tends to happen is the upper classes offspring go to lower classes and lower classes go to poverty etc. Downward taking of jobs basically bc those who use to be better off have some advantages with those they are now competing with. Things like iq , cocientiouness, connections etc. are obviously more developed the higher up the social latter your family and families ancestors were apart of. Anyway that allows someone who was higher status to win more if they have to drop down an income bracket.

[C-Mag]

I’m not an open borders guy. But the wall is an idiotic idea.

The walls don't work argument is juvenile. Because the next thing out of their mouth is, 'It won't stope everyone'. Of course not, but it will stop 90%. Just fucking look at the Migrant invasion force that covered 3000 miles in 5 weeks, when they hit the modest wall in Tijuana they were stopped cold. Now they are piling up there. Did a few get through, yes, but the vast majority of them are in Tijuana making life shitty for the locals.

[C-Mag]

I honestly don't understand how little free migration peeps care about their fellow humans. They don't want these migrants legal, they want to keep them illegal, running from the border patrol, at the mercy of gangs and coyotes, having to cross parched deserts to get here. A lot of them die making the journey, but the free migration peeps don't give AF.

If put up a wall, and make appropriate port of entries we can bring this thing above board. These people won't be subject to this. Big Business and the 1% that use these people as human chattel will suddenly have to treat them as fellow human beings.

[heydaralon]

Move off the bottom, and it’s no longer an issue. This is a serious problem for the illiterate, or incompetent. That’s all.

Those guys aren’t competing for anything that even requires a diploma, let alone actual skills. You compete based on merit, not labor scarcity. To say otherwise, you sound no different than a welfare queen begging for gibs.

You are trolling right now.


Laconia, the Confederacy, South Africa, and Rhodesia have all taught us that a large slave population (taking aside the evils of slavery and so forth) with limited rights living within a more prosperous society does not end well for said society. A uniquely different thing about our society is the fact that we are allowing these slaves to stay here on their own volition to get cheap shit within our borders. There will come a time, and its not far off, where you will see these illegals mobilize and demand equal treatment. Riots, mobs, the works. The Democrats will welcome a new huge base. You are essentially encouraging a conflict because you are too selfish to pay more for fucking tomatoes.

Also, I love how you dismiss all these essential jobs as not having "actual skills." Do you think construction workers don't have actual skills? I think its pretty fucking hard to do what they do. What about small farms that have to compete with illegal labor? Are those farmers skill-less? Fucking ridiculous.

And no, it doesn't end with these low skilled jobs. If these people have children and get on welfare, that affects us. You always talk about how the world is ending with climate change and how we are fucked, and you don't think we should build a wall? You think America should take in the entire southern hemisphere? Asinine. You haven't thought this through...

[heydaralon]

It doesn't have to be a wall. A mine field with machine gun nests on our side would also work fine imo. Borders are sacred. No border=no country. No country=no society. No society=collapse. Collapse=a re evaluation of values and demarcations between the sacred and profane us and them which leads to...BORDERS. Huh. Its almost like the earlier people figured all this shit out we conveniently forget while shopping at Wal Mart and tweeting against corporations while buying lettuce for pennies... Who would have thought ...

[clubgop]

It's not massive at all. It's about 0.2 agents per mile of border.

A wall would work pretty well in conjunction with the border patrol and other technologies.

We have a border fence, hows that working out? They tunneled under it, and move mine carts full of drugs and people back and forth daily.

If you want more agents, then get them.

But walls don’t stop human beings for long. Ask East Berlin.

Yeah cause West Germans were just throwing themselves to get in.

[heydaralon]

These visas are also the problem when those scumbags deliberately overstay their welcome. They weren't welcome here in the first place in my book, but we need a better system of catch and release. Our ICE agents catch them, and then release them back where they belong. I don't have a great answer for that. If this is happening to the point where our security is a joke, we need to rethink how important these Visa people are for our country. I think it has far more to do with ideology than necessity tbh.

[Montegriffo]

I honestly don't understand how little free migration peeps care about their fellow humans. They don't want these migrants legal, they want to keep them illegal, running from the border patrol, at the mercy of gangs and coyotes, having to cross parched deserts to get here. A lot of them die making the journey, but the free migration peeps don't give AF.

If put up a wall, and make appropriate port of entries we can bring this thing above board. These people won't be subject to this. Big Business and the 1% that use these people as human chattel will suddenly have to treat them as fellow human beings.

Who is for ''free migration''?
That's as dumb as saying people want open borders.

A 2000 mile wall won't even get half built before it is abandoned by the next administration.
A total waste of resources and manpower.

Since when did Conservatives get so keen on spending other peoples money?