Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Otern]

The climate doesn't care if the CO2 is from a fossil or renewable source. It's the total amount released that matters. The thinking that using renewable instead of fossil leads to less use of fossil isn't true if the use of fossil doesn't actually decrease. If you not burning the oil just leads to someone else burning it instead nothing changes. A low oil price just makes it more affordable for poorer people in less developed countries to use more of it.

Renewable fuel is just feel good sauce. Without the subventions (financed by consumption of fossil fuel) no one would buy it. One time in the future when we run out of oil we might have to depend on it so it's good that we are researching and trying stuff out but right now it has little effect beyond the symbolism and virtue signalling.

Yes, it's pretty much what I've been saying. We're going to keep using fossil fuels, and keep making concrete. The whole renewable fuel thing is to avoid a new energy crisis, but it won't do much to stem global warming.

[Otern]

And this whole thing won't be solved with "better efficiency". We're already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency in most power production systems. Maybe solar power has a bit to go still, but wind, water, gas, coal, tidal and geothermic energy production can't really be much more efficient than it already is.

Wind is somewhere around 40% now, while the maximum theoretical is 59,3%, with absolutely no mechanical loss.

Global warming is impossible to stop at this point. And the energy crisis will come too, just a matter of time, and if we're stupid enough to abandon nuclear power in the name of environmentalism.

[Montegriffo]

Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours. – Richard Bach

[Otern]

Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours. – Richard Bach

The laws of thermodynamics applies. This is what I'm talking about here. You can't go beyond 100% efficiency. In fact, you can't actually reach 100%.

[Montegriffo]

Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours. – Richard Bach

The laws of thermodynamics apply. This is what I'm talking about here. You can't go beyond 100% efficiency. In fact, you can't actually reach 100%.

I was referring to the overall tone of the conversation, not your point about energy efficiency.

[nmoore63]

And this whole thing won't be solved with "better efficiency". We're already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency in most power production systems. Maybe solar power has a bit to go still, but wind, water, gas, coal, tidal and geothermic energy production can't really be much more efficient than it already is.

Wind is somewhere around 40% now, while the maximum theoretical is 59,3%, with absolutely no mechanical loss.

Global warming is impossible to stop at this point. And the energy crisis will come too, just a matter of time, and if we're stupid enough to abandon nuclear power in the name of environmentalism.

I would imagine there is still lots more effecency to be gained when you are talking the total system, such as long term maintenance and such.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's really more a matter of mitigating the massive inefficiencies and problems created by alternative energy.

[Otern]

And this whole thing won't be solved with "better efficiency". We're already pretty close to maximum theoretical efficiency in most power production systems. Maybe solar power has a bit to go still, but wind, water, gas, coal, tidal and geothermic energy production can't really be much more efficient than it already is.

Wind is somewhere around 40% now, while the maximum theoretical is 59,3%, with absolutely no mechanical loss.

Global warming is impossible to stop at this point. And the energy crisis will come too, just a matter of time, and if we're stupid enough to abandon nuclear power in the name of environmentalism.

I would imagine there is still lots more effecency to be gained when you are talking the total system, such as long term maintenance and such.

That's economical efficiency. Not conservation of energy efficiency.

[DBTrek]

The laws of thermodynamics apply. This is what I'm talking about here. You can't go beyond 100% efficiency. In fact, you can't actually reach 100%.

I was referring to the overall tone of the conversation, not your point about energy efficiency.

Monte is getting damn tired of facts and reason harshing his buzz.
Moon landing, guys.
Moon landing.

lulz

[Montegriffo]

The laws of thermodynamics apply. This is what I'm talking about here. You can't go beyond 100% efficiency. In fact, you can't actually reach 100%.

I was referring to the overall tone of the conversation, not your point about energy efficiency.

Monte is getting damn tired of facts and reason harshing his buzz.
Moon landing, guys.
Moon landing.

lulz

I'm just depressed.

The refugee crisis is caused by over population but I don't hear anyone saying there is no point in trying to reduce immigration.

In 100 years when shit is getting serious people are going to be asking " they were told what was going to happen, why did they resist every little thing which could have made a difference".
I think they will just come to the conclusion that nobody cared.

Have it your way, nothing is worth trying.
I give up.