Tragic vs. Therapeutic View

[DrYouth]

As VDH puts it, there are two major worldviews competing currently for the attitudes and motivations of most people. One is the tragic view, where the person believe human nature is basically flawed and despite those flaws we can and should continue striving for a better more beautiful life. The therapeutic view thinks that if people were somehow more egalitarian and able to protect everything and everyone then the world could be an Utopian paradise.

What about looking at how the world isn't flawed?
How about looking at how power structures reflect inherent positive qualities and are not invariably corrupt?

Would that be the "not so tragic" school of thought?

The idea that we must always tear down power structures and the create "power structures" that claim to be inherently and paradoxically averse to power structures is one of the deepest illnesses of our time.

Power structures need to be held in check and held accountable... but it is ridiculous to strive to have none.

[GloryofGreece]

As VDH puts it, there are two major worldviews competing currently for the attitudes and motivations of most people. One is the tragic view, where the person believe human nature is basically flawed and despite those flaws we can and should continue striving for a better more beautiful life. The therapeutic view thinks that if people were somehow more egalitarian and able to protect everything and everyone then the world could be an Utopian paradise.

What about looking at how the world isn't flawed?
How about looking at how power structures reflect inherent positive qualities and are not invariably corrupt?

Would that be the "not so tragic" school of thought?

The idea that we must always tear down power structures and the create "power structures" that claim to be inherently and paradoxically averse to power structures is one of the deepest illnesses of our time.

Power structures need to be held in check and held accountable... but it is ridiculous to strive to have none.

Yea that would be another perspective maybe more balanced right? Your later comments are part of the therapeutic view of the world. They think that the world and humanity is perfectible. Hence Utopian schemes commence. There is always someone to blame and something left to undo or try anew.

[DrYouth]

Yea that would be another perspective maybe more balanced right? Your later comments are part of the therapeutic view of the world. They think that the world and humanity is perfectible. Hence Utopian schemes commence. There is always someone to blame and something left to undo or try anew.

The thing is that both right and left hold this view... (so I'm not sure how the tragic and therapeutic models overlap with this... therapeutic sounded left leaning)

The right believes the corrupt power structure is government and "collectivism" and that we should somehow live without government or "collective" regulations on society....

The left sees the corrupt power structure as the "patriarchy", the corporate plutocracy, and the looming spectre of colonialism...

Both sides tend to want to burn power structures to the ground.... without any real suggestions as to how to replace them.... or what a healthy "non-utopian" implementation of power would be....

[GloryofGreece]

Yea that would be another perspective maybe more balanced right? Your later comments are part of the therapeutic view of the world. They think that the world and humanity is perfectible. Hence Utopian schemes commence. There is always someone to blame and something left to undo or try anew.

The thing is that both right and left hold this view...

The right believes the corrupt power structure is government and "collectivism" and that we should somehow live without government or "collective" regulations on society....

The left sees the corrupt power structure as the "patriarchy", the corporate plutocracy, and the looming spectre of colonialism...

Both sides tend to want to burn power structures to the ground.... without any real suggestions as to how to replace them.... or what a healthy "non-utopian" implementation of power would be....

I would say acknowledge structures and institutions that have worked before and are currently more or less work now and there you have it. That's the balance. Its a dance more than anything else and every dance takes balance.But it also takes readjustment and alignment. Its an ongoing thing against entropy. You use traditions that work and you pay attention to make adjustments.

[DrYouth]

I would say acknowledge structures and institutions that have worked before and are currently more or less work now and there you have it. That's the balance. Its a dance more than anything else and every dance takes balance.But it also takes readjustment and alignment. Its an ongoing thing against entropy. You use traditions that work and you pay attention to make adjustments.

Such a rarely articulated idea in our political landscape... genius yet I guess pretty boring compared to "BURN IT DOWN"...
Maybe it's our cultural attention deficit disorder...
If it doesn't involve burning vehicles and water cannons... it's not getting anyone's attention.

[GloryofGreece]

I would say acknowledge structures and institutions that have worked before and are currently more or less work now and there you have it. That's the balance. Its a dance more than anything else and every dance takes balance.But it also takes readjustment and alignment. Its an ongoing thing against entropy. You use traditions that work and you pay attention to make adjustments.

Such a rarely articulated idea in our political landscape... genius yet I guess pretty boring compared to "BURN IT DOWN"...
Maybe it's our cultural attention deficit disorder...
If it doesn't involve burning vehicles and water cannons... it's not getting anyone's attention.

Plenty of things worth doing and preserving are boring and slow. We are caught up in this instant gratification fast paced feedback loop. Who knows maybe it will lead to our utter destruction and then that really wont be boring at really will it?

[heydaralon]

Such a rarely articulated idea in our political landscape... genius yet I guess pretty boring compared to "BURN IT DOWN"...
Maybe it's our cultural attention deficit disorder...
If it doesn't involve burning vehicles and water cannons... it's not getting anyone's attention.

We asked you to leave this forum. We even took a vote on it and banished you. Yet you defied that ban and returned. That's kind of messed up man. It might be time for you to hit the road. Platypus took your spot, and we don't have room for another person right now. A vote is a vote and its binding...

[Montegriffo]

A vote is a vote and its binding...

Geez man, it's all Brexit this and Brexit that with you isn't it? Give it a rest man, nobody cares...

[heydaralon]

A vote is a vote and its binding...

Geez man, it's all Brexit this and Brexit that with you isn't it? Give it a rest man, nobody cares...

Keep it up Monte, we will soon take a vote on banishing you. A Mexit if you will...

[Montegriffo]

A vote is a vote and its binding...

Geez man, it's all Brexit this and Brexit that with you isn't it? Give it a rest man, nobody cares...

Keep it up Monte, we will soon take a vote on banishing you. A Mexit if you will...

Only if you can work out an exit deal which doesn't leave the MHF much worse off and all the studies on it have proved that to be unicorn farts.