Collectivism Poll

[Speaker to Animals]

How individual are we going here? You were probably raised by at least one parent right? Outside the family, you probably had friends whose parents watched you when you visited. You might have had teachers that helped you with your work, and steered you toward a career or hobby that you were interested in. If you played sports, your team mates and coach probably had a large influence on your life. Many people on here went to church, and the churchgoers often help each other out when shit gets tough. Is that not a "village" of sorts? If it isn't, then why would you describe the distant government as a village, but not the people in your local life?

To determine individualism vs collectivism, this question is poorly phrased.

Even leaving out governments for a second, markets are also a sort of collectivist enterprise. The collective decisions of people determine how much they pay, how much they can sell for, where they can live, and their wants and desires.

We're talking as a fundamental as a idealistic target....do you believe the interests of the community, as a whole, supersede, in most cases, the interests of individual liberty.

It's both and neither. There shouldn't be a conflict between community and individual liberty. If individual liberty is destructive of society, then it's not legitimate. This is because one can only enjoy liberties insomuch as society makes it possible through economy, social support, education, culture, etc. If you want to go live like a bear in the forest, then by all means, but even then you are not starting fresh, having received the one of the best educations any humans in history ever received. If you can't figure out how to build some shelter, you can just look up the information online. This is all society. Without society, you have no language, no culture, not even the capacity to think in terms of liberties.

False dichotomy.

[Speaker to Animals]

Radical individualists are as asinine as radical collectivists when you really consider it.

Humans are social creatures and individual thinkers, both. We need both individual liberties and a "village". People who autistically obsess over collectivism or individualism are completely fucking blind to how stupid they are behaving. A society that tramples on the human rights of the members of that society is not sustainable. Neither is a society where all the members are trying to fuck each other in the ass proverbially or otherwise.

[heydaralon]

How individual are we going here? You were probably raised by at least one parent right? Outside the family, you probably had friends whose parents watched you when you visited. You might have had teachers that helped you with your work, and steered you toward a career or hobby that you were interested in. If you played sports, your team mates and coach probably had a large influence on your life. Many people on here went to church, and the churchgoers often help each other out when shit gets tough. Is that not a "village" of sorts? If it isn't, then why would you describe the distant government as a village, but not the people in your local life?

To determine individualism vs collectivism, this question is poorly phrased.

Even leaving out governments for a second, markets are also a sort of collectivist enterprise. The collective decisions of people determine how much they pay, how much they can sell for, where they can live, and their wants and desires.

We're talking as a fundamental as a idealistic target....do you believe the interests of the community, as a whole, supersede, in most cases, the interests of individual liberty.

Personally, I am an individual liberty guy, and do not like government attempting to tell me what to say, think, or do.

Where do you draw the line? If a bunch of drug addicts moved next door to you, would you want their individual liberty to smoke meth to be limited by the government? Would you want a developer to be able to build shitty strip malls and gas stations right next to your neighborhood, causing noise, light, and traffic pollution? Should their individual liberty to do so be abridged? Where is the role of individual vs. collective in a war or severe economic collapse? These are just examples I came up with at the top of my head. I don't have answers to these questions, I'm just saying that my more individualism oriented perspective is not a complete picture.

[Fife]

"Individual v. collective" is a false dichotomy.

The question is: "voluntary v. compulsory."

Or, if you prefer, "voluntary v. rent-seeking armed-robbery mafia"

[Zlaxer]

Where do you draw the line?

When the actions of others impact my rights.....that's when the government can step in so that I don't have to resort to vigilantism....

[Speaker to Animals]

"Individual v. collective" is a false dichotomy.

The question is: "voluntary v. compulsory."

Or, if you prefer, "voluntary v. rent-seeking armed-robbery mafia"

Guess how it became a "rent-seeking armed-robbery mafia"..

Hint: it started with one of Hamilton's ideas.

[heydaralon]

"Individual v. collective" is a false dichotomy.

The question is: "voluntary v. compulsory."

Or, if you prefer, "voluntary v. rent-seeking armed-robbery mafia"

Guess how it became a "rent-seeking armed-robbery mafia"..

Hint: it started with one of Hamilton's ideas.

musicals?

[heydaralon]

Where do you draw the line?

When the actions of others impact my rights.....that's when the government can step in so that I don't have to resort to vigilantism....

You have discussed the perils of automation. If you think that many if not most jobs will be automated, will you still be an individualist? If so, how would you minimize the role of government in this new system?

[Speaker to Animals]

Where do you draw the line?

When the actions of others impact my rights.....that's when the government can step in so that I don't have to resort to vigilantism....

So can we outlaw M2M butt sex, then? For waging an incessant HIV epidemic upon the United States, costing us more lives now than the American Civil War?

I want you to seriously reconcile what you just said with the common misconception of "liberty".

Most of the degenerate, sick behavior people champion as "liberty" costs us more than any war we ever waged. The great flu pandemic didn't even match what the gay subculture did to America with HIV. The cost of Roe v. Wade is the decimation of the social welfare systems and inversion of the demographic age pyramid by 2050.

[Zlaxer]

Where do you draw the line?

When the actions of others impact my rights.....that's when the government can step in so that I don't have to resort to vigilantism....

You have discussed the perils of automation. If you think that many if not most jobs will be automated, will you still be an individualist? If so, how would you minimize the role of government in this new system?

Automation is where I break ranks and entertain the possibility of state provided income....still looking for ways around that option, which seems inevitable given how fast machines are improving and how stupid the proles are becoming.