THE ERA OF TRUMP

[pineapplemike]

Trump targeting birthright citizenship with executive order
https://www.axios.com/trump-birthright- ... 2ea82.html

President Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil

This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting "anchor babies" and "chain migration." And it will set off another stand-off with the courts, as Trump’s power to do this through executive action is debatable to say the least.

can this be done through executive order? wouldn't an amendment be the proper way to change this? it's in the constitution, no?

[Speaker to Animals]

Magic soil is an activist judge law, I think.

[Fife]

Like about 99% of the federal government, there's "something" about it in the constitution, but the law as implemented (and facially) is illegitimate.

What the constitution actually says is instructive.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

[Hastur]

About f-ing time. That must be one of the stupidest practices you have. Perhaps it made sense in the beginning, frontier stages of the Republic but it makes no sense whatsoever in modern time.

[pineapplemike]

thanks fife. is executive power still the correct process? or would legislation through congress be the correct way to implement it? i'm still a stickler for executive overreach

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Illegal immigrants aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? I guess that rather undermines the case that they can be physically removed by organs of the state.

Maybe it isn't the wisest jurisprudence to put illegal immigrants in the same legal category as diplomats... but, Trump has a very big brain, so I am sure he has thought this through.

On the plus side for the libshits: giving the executive the mandate to divine the 'real intent' behind constitutional amendments, and then pass orders that properly fetter said document, will be a real boon for gun grabbers next time there is a liberal president.

Nah, Trump knows what he is doing, it is good to support him. He is wise.

[Fife]

thanks fife. is executive power still the correct process? or would legislation through congress be the correct way to implement it? i'm still a stickler for executive overreach

I can't see any kind of executive authority to act in this regard. The current SCOTUS will send him packing, IMNSHO. All of that will come after election day, however. That is, *if* the proposed EO is anything more than a campaign symbol like the Wall.

The 14th amendment is sort of an abomination in the first place. It creates a positive right to citizenship, as opposed to acting as a negative against the state from infringing on natural rights. Does the 14th amendment prohibit Congress from extending citizenship to anchor babies, or to chimpanzees? Iunno; but the 14th only goes so far as its language in creating a positive right to citizenship. In that context, the term of art "jurisdiction" has a very specific meaning.

What's the natural right to citizenship as a subject of any given human government? Beats me, but scholars like HM can prolly carry on for days about it.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

You're right Fife, a natural right to citizenship is a somewhat absurd concept. Which is, presumably, why that right is established by the laws of the governments in question.

Perhaps you should claim you aren't under the jurisdiction of such odious laws, and make your kids pull themselves up by their bootstraps and apply for their own citizenship.

[Fife]

Perhaps you should go clean your room. And then sit on your helmet.

[Speaker to Animals]

The Constitution was written under the framework of coverture. Liberals are also sophists. They like to abuse language all the time. They will change the definitions or assumptions that formed the basis for constitutional text in order to argue the Constitution says what the actual author of the text explicitly denied.

Under coverture, citizenship flowed from the father. This is why Churchill was a British prime Minister and not a US president..