Catholic Questions/Issues

[heydaralon]

I know Speaker to Animals is a devout Catholic and ND was brought up in that faith. I was raised in the Southern Protestant tradition, and was kind taught that the Catholics were wrong on a lot of major theological issues. I wasn't raised to think they were going to hell, just that their take on the Bible was misguided. Anyway, this isn't meant as some kind of faggy Richard Dawkins type post, and I am asking all this stuff in good faith. I think Christianity is the major foundation of our culture, but to me it feels like the Catholic church is rotten at the moment(this does not mean that I think individual Catholics are rotten). GoG made a thread on the reformation, and I realized that all my personal spiritual take comes from post Martin Luther. In light of all the molestation allegations and controversy of the current pope, I thought I'd ask you all some questions about Catholicism:

1) Is the Pope sanctioned by scripture? Doesn't centralizing spiritual power in the hands of a mortal create some major conflicts of interest?
We have had Popes who used the vatican as a whorehouse, a bank, and as a ratline for escaping Nazis. Also the famous 14th century schism between Avignon and Rome where Christendom was split in half and the pope and anti-pope excommunicated each other and their respective followers. How do you use the Bible to resolve that? In this instance, are the bad or corrupt popes not speaking for God? Full disclosure: I do not like the idea of a Pope for this reason. I am aware that many companies have had bad CEO's, and our country has had unbelievably incompetent and immoral presidents, but as the people, we can vote them out and they are not supposed to be infallible and spiritually transcendent. To me, it is problematic to attempt to centralize spirituality in the hands of one man.

2) Does purgatory exist? Where in the Bible is this supported? Is there a scripture verse that hints at how long sinners will stay there?

3) Are indulgences a valid concept?

4) I was raised to think that shortly after Christ ascended to heaven, direct miracles and communication with him would cease. All the Apostles were grandfathered in, but with a few exceptions like Saul of Tarsas, God would no longer show himself in such up front ways to humans. Do you believe that the Pope talks directly to God? Does he talk directly to God before he becomes a pope, or is it after he is selected for the office?

5)Why doesn't the pope simply issue a Papal bull excommunicating any priest who sexually abuses a child? I don't think this would prevent future abuse completely, but it would be a bold stance to take and it would send a better message than the current one.

6)What happens if one pope gives edicts or pronouncements that contradict a previous pope's? Does the most recent pope get obeyed?

7) Do you think Pope Francis is a real Pope? As a Catholic, are you bound by his commands and ideology?

Again, I'm not trying to insult anyone's beliefs or paint all Catholics with the same brush. I was not raised in this faith and I just wondered if any of you had any thoughts on this stuff.

[TheReal_ND]

This man answers all your questions.

[MilSpecs]

I know Speaker to Animals is a devout Catholic and ND was brought up in that faith. I was raised in the Southern Protestant tradition, and was kind taught that the Catholics were wrong on a lot of major theological issues. I wasn't raised to think they were going to hell, just that their take on the Bible was misguided. Anyway, this isn't meant as some kind of faggy Richard Dawkins type post, and I am asking all this stuff in good faith. I think Christianity is the major foundation of our culture, but to me it feels like the Catholic church is rotten at the moment(this does not mean that I think individual Catholics are rotten). GoG made a thread on the reformation, and I realized that all my personal spiritual take comes from post Martin Luther. In light of all the molestation allegations and controversy of the current pope, I thought I'd ask you all some questions about Catholicism:

1) Is the Pope sanctioned by scripture? Doesn't centralizing spiritual power in the hands of a mortal create some major conflicts of interest?
We have had Popes who used the vatican as a whorehouse, a bank, and as a ratline for escaping Nazis. Also the famous 14th century schism between Avignon and Rome where Christendom was split in half and the pope and anti-pope excommunicated each other and their respective followers. How do you use the Bible to resolve that? In this instance, are the bad or corrupt popes not speaking for God? Full disclosure: I do not like the idea of a Pope for this reason. I am aware that many companies have had bad CEO's, and our country has had unbelievably incompetent and immoral presidents, but as the people, we can vote them out and they are not supposed to be infallible and spiritually transcendent. To me, it is problematic to attempt to centralize spirituality in the hands of one man.

2) Does purgatory exist? Where in the Bible is this supported? Is there a scripture verse that hints at how long sinners will stay there?

3) Are indulgences a valid concept?

4) I was raised to think that shortly after Christ ascended to heaven, direct miracles and communication with him would cease. All the Apostles were grandfathered in, but with a few exceptions like Saul of Tarsas, God would no longer show himself in such up front ways to humans. Do you believe that the Pope talks directly to God? Does he talk directly to God before he becomes a pope, or is it after he is selected for the office?

5)Why doesn't the pope simply issue a Papal bull excommunicating any priest who sexually abuses a child? I don't think this would prevent future abuse completely, but it would be a bold stance to take and it would send a better message than the current one.

6)What happens if one pope gives edicts or pronouncements that contradict a previous pope's? Does the most recent pope get obeyed?

7) Do you think Pope Francis is a real Pope? As a Catholic, are you bound by his commands and ideology?

Again, I'm not trying to insult anyone's beliefs or paint all Catholics with the same brush. I was not raised in this faith and I just wondered if any of you had any thoughts on this stuff.

There is so much to unpack here that each point could be it's own thread. Why do you think the Catholic church is currently rotten?

[Speaker to Animals]

1) The primacy of St. Peter derives from the fact that Christ gave Peter authority over the other Apostles. Peter possessed the keys. Later in Acts during the first council St. Peter is clearly seen as the authority within the Church on this Earth. Bishops are all successors of the Apostles. The bishop who takes the bushopric of Rome is the successor of St. Peter (that was originally his office).

[katarn]

1) The primacy of St. Peter derives from the fact that Christ gave Peter authority over the other Apostles. Peter possessed the keys. Later in Acts during the first council St. Peter is clearly seen as the authority within the Church on this Earth. Bishops are all successors of the Apostles. The bishop who takes the bushopric of Rome is the successor of St. Peter (that was originally his office).

All right, but then if Peter was the authority in the temporal Church then what makes successive bishops of Rome special? In other words, what is the reason for extending the post given to Peter to all time?

[Speaker to Animals]

1) The primacy of St. Peter derives from the fact that Christ gave Peter authority over the other Apostles. Peter possessed the keys. Later in Acts during the first council St. Peter is clearly seen as the authority within the Church on this Earth. Bishops are all successors of the Apostles. The bishop who takes the bushopric of Rome is the successor of St. Peter (that was originally his office).

All right, but then if Peter was the authority in the temporal Church then what makes successive bishops of Rome special? In other words, what is the reason for extending the post given to Peter to all time?

When an Apostle died, the remaining Apostles showed how it was done by elevating a disciple (St. Barnabas) to the status of a new Apostle.

The word bishop began as a euphamism for Apostle. In the beginning, most of them used Greek (the Gospels were written in Greek). Bishop derives from the Greek word episkipos, which means overseer. Also the origin of our word episcopal.

That Christ gave St. Peter authority over the other Apostles is clearly in the Gospel. How the Church operates to replace an Apostle, and how the Vicer of Christ's authority functions in practice, is all outlined in Acts

[heydaralon]

I know Speaker to Animals is a devout Catholic and ND was brought up in that faith. I was raised in the Southern Protestant tradition, and was kind taught that the Catholics were wrong on a lot of major theological issues. I wasn't raised to think they were going to hell, just that their take on the Bible was misguided. Anyway, this isn't meant as some kind of faggy Richard Dawkins type post, and I am asking all this stuff in good faith. I think Christianity is the major foundation of our culture, but to me it feels like the Catholic church is rotten at the moment(this does not mean that I think individual Catholics are rotten). GoG made a thread on the reformation, and I realized that all my personal spiritual take comes from post Martin Luther. In light of all the molestation allegations and controversy of the current pope, I thought I'd ask you all some questions about Catholicism:

1) Is the Pope sanctioned by scripture? Doesn't centralizing spiritual power in the hands of a mortal create some major conflicts of interest?
We have had Popes who used the vatican as a whorehouse, a bank, and as a ratline for escaping Nazis. Also the famous 14th century schism between Avignon and Rome where Christendom was split in half and the pope and anti-pope excommunicated each other and their respective followers. How do you use the Bible to resolve that? In this instance, are the bad or corrupt popes not speaking for God? Full disclosure: I do not like the idea of a Pope for this reason. I am aware that many companies have had bad CEO's, and our country has had unbelievably incompetent and immoral presidents, but as the people, we can vote them out and they are not supposed to be infallible and spiritually transcendent. To me, it is problematic to attempt to centralize spirituality in the hands of one man.

2) Does purgatory exist? Where in the Bible is this supported? Is there a scripture verse that hints at how long sinners will stay there?

3) Are indulgences a valid concept?

4) I was raised to think that shortly after Christ ascended to heaven, direct miracles and communication with him would cease. All the Apostles were grandfathered in, but with a few exceptions like Saul of Tarsas, God would no longer show himself in such up front ways to humans. Do you believe that the Pope talks directly to God? Does he talk directly to God before he becomes a pope, or is it after he is selected for the office?

5)Why doesn't the pope simply issue a Papal bull excommunicating any priest who sexually abuses a child? I don't think this would prevent future abuse completely, but it would be a bold stance to take and it would send a better message than the current one.

6)What happens if one pope gives edicts or pronouncements that contradict a previous pope's? Does the most recent pope get obeyed?

7) Do you think Pope Francis is a real Pope? As a Catholic, are you bound by his commands and ideology?

Again, I'm not trying to insult anyone's beliefs or paint all Catholics with the same brush. I was not raised in this faith and I just wondered if any of you had any thoughts on this stuff.

There is so much to unpack here that each point could be it's own thread. Why do you think the Catholic church is currently rotten?

Well, these are things I have always wondered about. Personally, I think John Paul II did some heroic stuff, like leading the resistance to Communism in Poland, but there are many things that bother me about the idea of a pope. Not knocking anyone's faith.

[heydaralon]

1) The primacy of St. Peter derives from the fact that Christ gave Peter authority over the other Apostles. Peter possessed the keys. Later in Acts during the first council St. Peter is clearly seen as the authority within the Church on this Earth. Bishops are all successors of the Apostles. The bishop who takes the bushopric of Rome is the successor of St. Peter (that was originally his office).

Thank you for the answer+biblical references. I would not claim to know more about the Bible than you, but from my religious background the idea of a pope seems unusual and possibly somewhat sinister.

[heydaralon]

This man answers all your questions.

Thanks for the link!

[Speaker to Animals]

1) The primacy of St. Peter derives from the fact that Christ gave Peter authority over the other Apostles. Peter possessed the keys. Later in Acts during the first council St. Peter is clearly seen as the authority within the Church on this Earth. Bishops are all successors of the Apostles. The bishop who takes the bushopric of Rome is the successor of St. Peter (that was originally his office).

Thank you for the answer+biblical references. I would not claim to know more about the Bible than you, but from my religious background the idea of a pope seems unusual and possibly somewhat sinister.

It's literally in the Bible. Jesus made St. Peter the leader of the Apostles. In the Council of Jerusalem, he was the ultimate Earthly authority that presided over it. Even St. Paul deferred to him, though St. Paul was intellectually far superior to St. Peter. The Apostolic Succession also is clearly shown in Acts, with St. Barnabas being made an Apostle.

When St. Barnabas died, the other Apostles replaced him with another, and so on, until today. A bishop is just a successor of the Apostles, and the Pope is just the successor of St. Peter.