The Myth of the 20th Century

[Montegriffo]

I didnt much care for that episode. I thought the guest was kind of boring.

Meh. Griffin is just another holocaust denying, minority scapegoating dick. Even the BNP threw him out. He's old news and totally irrelevant these days.

[GloryofGreece]

I didnt much care for that episode. I thought the guest was kind of boring.

Meh. Griffin is just another holocaust denying, minority scapegoating dick. Even the BNP threw him out. He's old news and totally irrelevant these days.

What are your thoughts on Mosely and Enoch?

[Montegriffo]

I didnt much care for that episode. I thought the guest was kind of boring.

Meh. Griffin is just another holocaust denying, minority scapegoating dick. Even the BNP threw him out. He's old news and totally irrelevant these days.

What are your thoughts on Mosely and Enoch?

Mosley was a good orator but changed political ideologies more often than I change my socks. Stood for Parliament as a Tory then an independant and then Labour before finally forming his own party. I'd call him a naive populist more interested in fame than improving the lives of his constituents.
Powell was a much more competent politician. Now only known for his much misinterpreted rivers of blood speech his political achievements have been overshadowed by it. I don't necessarily agree with his views on imigration but he was far more than the racist and divisive figure he has been portrayed as.

[TheReal_ND]

Mosley was a bit of an oddball but I believe he felt passionately about Britain and wanted effective change which is why he quit the parties he did. He was also an anti-colonialist and didnt support Rhodesia. I listened to the podcast Myth of 20c did on Mosely and it was rather good. I like him a little bit less now that I know more about him but I dont doubt his sincerity at all.

[heydaralon]

Mosley's biggest achievement was when Kenobi and Luke went there and met Han to take them to Alderaan in a New Hope. His cantina was in the other films as well.

Mosley met people like Mussolini, but also Ghandi and seemed to like them both which is unusual. I'm surprised that Mosley liked him tbh. Ghandi is also a bit strange in that regard. He seemed to like Hitler insomuch as he was fighting the British empire.

The life of Diana Mitford, Mosley's later wife is pretty crazy. She used to go to Hitler rallies in Nuremberg. She also was friends with Joseph Goebbels and his wife Magda (the lady who poisoned her children in the bunker in 1945 and then killed herself with her husband). Both her and her husband went to prison during the War and then were released. She looks like a femme fatale in the pics you see of her, and a lot of high class british guys had the hots for her.

Nowadays, the narrative about Britain and WW2 usually focuses on Churchill with a few dismissive remarks about Chamberlain and "Munich moments." But there is an independent article that discusses how quite a few influential British people were somewhat supportive of Hitler and the Reich. Not in terms of appeasement, or not wanting a conflict with him, but actually agreeing with his rhetoric. Some of these folks wielded quite a bit of power. Monte, what are your thoughts on this? Do you feel like Churchill was unpopular leading up to WW2 among his people? Also, how is Churchill viewed today by British people? Is he viewed similar to the way Washington and Lincoln are viewed by Americans, or has he been turned into a chauvenistic imperialist character?

[Montegriffo]

Mosley's biggest achievement was when Kenobi and Luke went there and met Han to take them to Alderaan in a New Hope. His cantina was in the other films as well.

Mosley met people like Mussolini, but also Ghandi and seemed to like them both which is unusual. I'm surprised that Mosley liked him tbh. Ghandi is also a bit strange in that regard. He seemed to like Hitler insomuch as he was fighting the British empire.

The life of Diana Mitford, Mosley's later wife is pretty crazy. She used to go to Hitler rallies in Nuremberg. She also was friends with Joseph Goebbels and his wife Magda (the lady who poisoned her children in the bunker in 1945 and then killed herself with her husband). Both her and her husband went to prison during the War and then were released. She looks like a femme fatale in the pics you see of her, and a lot of high class british guys had the hots for her.

Nowadays, the narrative about Britain and WW2 usually focuses on Churchill with a few dismissive remarks about Chamberlain and "Munich moments." But there is an independent article that discusses how quite a few influential British people were somewhat supportive of Hitler and the Reich. Not in terms of appeasement, or not wanting a conflict with him, but actually agreeing with his rhetoric. Some of these folks wielded quite a bit of power. Monte, what are your thoughts on this? Do you feel like Churchill was unpopular leading up to WW2 among his people? Also, how is Churchill viewed today by British people? Is he viewed similar to the way Washington and Lincoln are viewed by Americans, or has he been turned into a chauvenistic imperialist character?

WWII went rather well as far as Ghandi was concerned. It bankrupted the already failing Empire and gave them a huge bargaining chip in the form of nearly 90k sacrificed soldiers plus many more injured in the cause.
Even if Britain had had the money to retain the Jewel in the Crown there was no way the Indian public would have stood for it. India was only ever run by consent.

As for Churchill, your view of him depends upon where on the political spectrum you're looking from.
If you were a supporter of womens rights you wouldn't be his greatest fan.
Some see him as a war mongering, outdated Victorian Imperialist.
He made huge mistakes at the Amiralty in WWI but regained his honour in the front line by rejoining his army regiment only to lose it again by insisting on a pointless cavalry charge risking his men for sport and vanity.
Between the wars he was seen as a failed politician like his father by most people.

If you ask the general public they will only know him for standing up to and beating the Nazis. He is consistantly voted greatest British man in polls.

Personally I'm grateful that the perfect man for the job was there when we needed him most. Makes me think of the Arthurian legend of him waiting to return if Albion was in ever in grave peril. I'm also grateful that his spell as peacetime leader was short.

[heydaralon]

Mosley's biggest achievement was when Kenobi and Luke went there and met Han to take them to Alderaan in a New Hope. His cantina was in the other films as well.

Mosley met people like Mussolini, but also Ghandi and seemed to like them both which is unusual. I'm surprised that Mosley liked him tbh. Ghandi is also a bit strange in that regard. He seemed to like Hitler insomuch as he was fighting the British empire.

The life of Diana Mitford, Mosley's later wife is pretty crazy. She used to go to Hitler rallies in Nuremberg. She also was friends with Joseph Goebbels and his wife Magda (the lady who poisoned her children in the bunker in 1945 and then killed herself with her husband). Both her and her husband went to prison during the War and then were released. She looks like a femme fatale in the pics you see of her, and a lot of high class british guys had the hots for her.

Nowadays, the narrative about Britain and WW2 usually focuses on Churchill with a few dismissive remarks about Chamberlain and "Munich moments." But there is an independent article that discusses how quite a few influential British people were somewhat supportive of Hitler and the Reich. Not in terms of appeasement, or not wanting a conflict with him, but actually agreeing with his rhetoric. Some of these folks wielded quite a bit of power. Monte, what are your thoughts on this? Do you feel like Churchill was unpopular leading up to WW2 among his people? Also, how is Churchill viewed today by British people? Is he viewed similar to the way Washington and Lincoln are viewed by Americans, or has he been turned into a chauvenistic imperialist character?

WWII went rather well as far as Ghandi was concerned. It bankrupted the already failing Empire and gave them a huge bargaining chip in the form of nearly 90k sacrificed soldiers plus many more injured in the cause.
Even if Britain had had the money to retain the Jewel in the Crown there was no way the Indian public would have stood for it. India was only ever run by consent.

As for Churchill, your view of him depends upon where on the political spectrum you're looking from.
If you were a supporter of womens rights you wouldn't be his greatest fan.
Some see him as a war mongering, outdated Victorian Imperialist.
He made huge mistakes at the Amiralty in WWI but regained his honour in the front line by rejoining his army regiment only to lose it again by insisting on a pointless cavalry charge risking his men for sport and vanity.
Between the wars he was seen as a failed politician like his father by most people.

If you ask the general public they will only know him for standing up to and beating the Nazis. He is consistantly voted greatest British man in polls.

Personally I'm grateful that the perfect man for the job was there when we needed him most. Makes me think of the Arthurian legend of him waiting to return if Albion was in ever in grave peril. I'm also grateful that his spell as peacetime leader was short.

Thanks for the analysis!

I was under the impression that the failure of the Galipoli campaign in WW1 were not really Churchill's fault. His advice on the offensive was not heeded by the other commanders there.

As far Churchill being a better war leader than a peace one, it seems like the British felt that way. I don't know too much about Clement Attlee other than his New Jerusalem stuff, so I can't say if he was a better Prime Minister than Churchill, but even during this time, Churchill's warnings were vindicated. When he gave his "Iron Curtain" speech many members of an American audience booed him, and he was lambasted throughout the intellectual circles of the West for alarmist talk. Well, it turns out that the Soviets were ruthless as fuck, and did not have any intention of respecting existing boundaries and borders in Europe. Looking back, it seems like a lot of folks were almost naive about Stalin's intentions, and I give credit to Winnie (do you like that nickname for him?) for pointing them out. He almost reminds me of Patton. A good general during WW2, but he put his foot in his mouth once it ended and publicly shared his fear and contempt for the USSR. It seems like no one appreciates the peacetime contributions of folks like this, and their insight, until long after they have been thrown into the political dumpster.

[Montegriffo]

Shame Smitty isn't here.
After all that...
''you're not fit to wipe this great soldiers boots you seditious little commie faggot,fetch the rope''
...bullshit he would have been able to give a better analysis of his greatness.

An inquiry into Gallipoli after the war did exhonerate Churchill and blamed the officers at the scene for the failures but he accepted the responsibility for it. It can't have helped with his ''black dog''.

[heydaralon]

Shame Smitty isn't here.
After all that...
''you're not fit to wipe this great soldiers boots you seditious little commie faggot,fetch the rope''
...bullshit he would have been able to give a better analysis of his greatness.

An inquiry into Gallipoli after the war did exhonerate Churchill and blamed the officers at the scene for the failures but he accepted the responsibility for it. It can't have helped with his ''black dog''.

?

I don't understand what you are getting at with the Smitty stuff

[Montegriffo]

Mosley was a bit of an oddball but I believe he felt passionately about Britain and wanted effective change which is why he quit the parties he did. He was also an anti-colonialist and didnt support Rhodesia. I listened to the podcast Myth of 20c did on Mosely and it was rather good. I like him a little bit less now that I know more about him but I dont doubt his sincerity at all.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.