Economics: Muh Roadz

[Fife]

Fife, I remember that in a post of mine (on the DCF, maybe two-three years ago?) I joked that you were an anarchist, and you corrected me that you weren't that much against having a state/government. So I've long assumed you were simply a die hard minarchist, but I've noticed you've been meme'ing and quoting anarcho-capitalists alot these last (one? two?) years. You don't even believe in having a State as a "neccesary evil" anymore, now?

Did your beliefs about the role (or lack thereof) of the State change over the last few years?

I'd have to see the text and the context of that earlier conversation. I have read quite a bit of additional material in the last 2 or 3 years.

"Necessary" or not, the state is an "evil." Violence and theft are evil. I'm not ab initio opposed to the state providing actual public goods, but the burden is on the state to show me that something is an actual public good. The burden gets higher and higher on what's "necessary" as I get older and more exposed to the evil the state initiates. Please remember that I've been dunked in a pretty dense indoctrination tank about the "necessity" and "goodness" of the state for about 30 years. Reality doesn't match up with the classroom, and certainly not the statehouse.

There are lots of smart cookies out there who push the envelope on things like public highways not being public goods, so that makes for good reading for me. I was trained to ignore the Overton Window, I reckon. Muh Autobahn Doe is NOT a proper response to "do we need the state to move around freely?"

Once "X is impossible without the state" as an unsupported assertion is presented as an argument, I'm not interested.

[Speaker to Animals]

The other day I was driving to Wallyworld on the public roads without having to pay ten bucks on private road tolls, and I felt so fucking oppressed by the state.

I cannot think of a single thing the state does to create negative publicity for itself than build and maintain all these roads. No.. belay that. The military. We cannot even depend upon mercenaries because the state monopolizes the free market on national security. W-T-F.

[DBTrek]

Roads happen via dividion of labor.
Division of labor requires a hierarchy.
Hierarchy is government, as the planning, labor division, and resource supply chain are centrally managed.

Ergo modern roads require government.

And deer trails ain’t fucking roads.

[Fife]

Hierarchy is Government? Lol ok man.

But you should send a message to the Walton family and Bezos to let them know they are doing some literally impossible shit. Gonna be a rough day on Wall St when they find out.

:goteam: :drunk:

[SuburbanFarmer]

Hierarchy is Government? Lol ok man.

But you should send a message to the Walton family and Bezos to let them know they are doing some literally impossible shit. Gonna be a rough day on Wall St when they find out.

:goteam: :drunk:

Without the supporting structure of government (and corruption), their business models would be literally impossible, yes.

[DBTrek]

Yeah, hierarchy is governed, sorry to kill the foundation of your ruse so effectively. I should have drawn it out a bit longer but I’m walking and hate typing on my phone.

[Fife]

Yeah, hierarchy is governed, sorry to kill the foundation of your ruse so effectively. I should have drawn it out a bit longer but I’m walking and hate typing on my phone.

You can draw it out til Christmas, and even sit down a library, and nothing is going to make "hierarchy is government" make any sense whatsoever.

At least you have Flounder on your side. You can be another sustaining member of the 0.2 Honor Roll. You might even get a tickle at the "you didn't build that" dance.

:goteam: :drunk:

[DBTrek]

Words are my game, son, you’re out of your depth. Hierarchy is predicated upon authority. Authority is predicated upon enforcing orders, aka governing.

Doesn’t take till Yule to connect those dots, fewl.

Hierarchy is government.

[Speaker to Animals]

The people who "own" the infrastructure will become the state by default, no matter what you want to label them.


What does the state do? It controls and regulates commerce. It creates the infrastructure and legal environment that make markets possible. What do you call private corporations that control the infrastructure, and by the transitive fucking property regulate commerce? They are the new state.

[SuburbanFarmer]

He who controls the Spice is King.