Lost Arguments Never Lost

[Martin Hash]

It used to be I knew what Fascism was: National Socialism. I've known that most of my life... Until now. Now the defintion of "Fascism" has been changed to not include Socialism. "How could that be?" I wondered. There's online dictionaries but they've been changed. "Go back to the source," I suggest. But first, I think, if the dictionaries have been changed, maybe the sources have been too, so I look them up. Well, at least for the moment, if you look up Giovanni Gentile, it still says he's the philosopher who created Fascism, and was the ghost-writer of Mussolini's speech on the topic. Read about Gentile and it's easy to see he's a Marxist; he even mentions Marx. His explanation of Fascism, and Mussolini's implementation, are like Marxist Socialism added with Nationalism. It seems absolutely clear with only 5 minutes of research anyone can prove that Fascism is Socialism YET you can't convince anyone.

[GloryofGreece]

I think I understand what your saying, but I'd add a few things. 1). Fascism wasn't invented by one person. 2). If its "right" wing its called fascism in most cases and you could think of it like authoritarianism. But either way both Communism and Fascism have a whole lot of collectivism. Its coming from a different ideology but they both control markets to a larger degree. Ones for the "national" benefit the other is for the "party/revolution" "benefit". Go far enough on either side and you essentially end up with totalitarianism. Whether its for the aristocracy/whomever that elite is categorized as, or for the comrades/people its still authoritarian.

[Martin Hash]

Dude, where are you getting that? Just Google "Giovanni Gentile." He created it. It was him.

[GloryofGreece]

Im not the only one that would think that. Its often not that myopic when philosophy is concerned. Origins are twisted things. There have been many many fascistic people, writers, politicians etc. Im not arguing the point. Is that all you got from my post?

[Martin Hash]

I knew what Fascism was 40 years ago. There was no hmmmm-hawing around. The facts speak for themselves; the counter-narrative is new.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Just different flavors of totalitarianism, really. Fascism has an added racial element. Communism has a radical atheist thing to it.

Socialism though... that’s becoming quite a catch-all term. Could be Commie-light, could be full Commie, could be practically anything not An-Cap.

[C-Mag]

Dude, where are you getting that? Just Google "Giovanni Gentile." He created it. It was him.

I firmly believe both Fascism and Socialism are Collectivist Ideologies.................. I didn't, until I talked to a Fascist and he convinced me. That's when I started calling both groups my patented phrase, "Filthy Collectivist".

The more I looked into it, the more I became a believer.
The Primary tenant of Collectivism is that the State is more important than the individual. Both ideologies believe that.

[BjornP]

Martin, unless Mormons use their own language, your dictionary really did not say Fascism was a form of Socialism when you were any age. It would have described Fascism like Carlus does, as one of the collectivist ideologies.

[Hwen Hoshino]

It used to be I knew what Fascism was: National Socialism. I've known that most of my life... Until now. Now the defintion of "Fascism" has been changed to not include Socialism. "How could that be?" I wondered. There's online dictionaries but they've been changed. "Go back to the source," I suggest. But first, I think, if the dictionaries have been changed, maybe the sources have been too, so I look them up. Well, at least for the moment, if you look up Giovanni Gentile, it still says he's the philosopher who created Fascism, and was the ghost-writer of Mussolini's speech on the topic. Read about Gentile and it's easy to see he's a Marxist; he even mentions Marx. His explanation of Fascism, and Mussolini's implementation, are like Marxist Socialism added with Nationalism. It seems absolutely clear with only 5 minutes of research anyone can prove that Fascism is Socialism YET you can't convince anyone.

Leave the word in the past and just use authoriatrian. Works better.

[Speaker to Animals]

Martin, unless Mormons use their own language, your dictionary really did not say Fascism was a form of Socialism when you were any age. It would have described Fascism like Carlus does, as one of the collectivist ideologies.

Disagree. I too learned it as a form of socialism. That puts it at least up until the 1980s.

It's national socialism, after all..


I think it is not just the socialist left responsible, but also the shekel-chasing elements that took over the GOP to blame, who proceeded to do everything in their power to equate the "right" with economic liberalism, when the right really has little to do with economics, and more to do with tradition, culture, and defense.

A socialist can be right or left, and equating socialism solely with the left is actually fucking dumb when you think about, for a multitude of reasons.