The Rubin Report

[Speaker to Animals]

Bullshit.

You should not have a vote, or be eligible for office, in the federal government unless you are a member of the modern version of what the founders called the militia.

Military service should be the prerequisite for federal enfranchisement. Nobody should possess the power to make wars they have zero intention themselves of fighting for, or any similar war when they were eligible. This is why we are dragged down into endless wars.

Four years service equals one vote.

4 years National Guard or regular enlistment?

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

[MilSpecs]

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

[Zlaxer]

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

Night school - lots of people in the DoD do it now...MIL-Spec any connection?

...knock out the base courses than just take the upper levels in class after service..

[MilSpecs]

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

Night school - lots of people in the DoD do it now...MIL-Spec any connection?

...knock out the base courses than just take the upper levels in class after service..

There's no night school for many professions. Also, lots of majors require concentrated, continuous study. It's also a huge waste of time to have people retaking courses. This is also assuming the enlistees have time to study at all - they might not even be in-country. "I can't fight today, I've got a Pre-Calc final tomorrow."

MilSpecs does indeed have a connection. I write procedures and reports that must conform to mil specs. The people who wrote the mil specs are engineers, who work for the armed forces but are not military themselves (none of us are military - we are civilian. I've never even seen the military in our facility, although they see everything I write). Usually, the engineers served for a couple of years and then used their GI benefits to get an education. Our oldest engineer just died - he was WWII. There's one ex-marine (not during wartime), two Vietnam era Army & Airforce guys, and I think that's it. I'm the only public servant. A lot of non-military keeps the military going.

[Okeefenokee]

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

[Okeefenokee]

Usually, the engineers served for a couple of years and then used their GI benefits to get an education. Our oldest engineer just died - he was WWII. There's one ex-marine (not during wartime), two Vietnam era Army & Airforce guys, and I think that's it. I'm the only public servant. A lot of non-military keeps the military going.

Way to blow up your own argument.

[MilSpecs]

They are both enlistment.

Though I would get rid of the National Guard as we know it and make it something more like Roman auxiliaries (only separated troops can join it).

I might also add: I would get rid of the military academies as places that youth go right out of high school. I would do something more like Heinlein envisioned: officer corps are recruited directly from the enlisted ranks based on merit and performance. They are deployed to a military academy as cadets, though they would still retain their old rank until they graduate. I would test the shit out of all recruits in everything in order to find the most talented and direct them to positions in which they are most talented. There would be no branches like we have today, at least not as totally separate organizations.

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

If you have thoughts, write them. These are all questions that would need to be resolved if 4-year military mandatory service were in place.

[Speaker to Animals]

My first software engineering job interview out of college (undergraduate) was for a defense contractor. I was pretty confident. I knew my shit.

They were all avionics guys like me. They were from the F-4 world. They lit my shit up. No mercy.

[Speaker to Animals]

And you want to make this four years? OK, a kid graduates from high school at 18 and goes into mandatory military service. She gets out at 22. That four years just forced her to retake a bunch of advanced courses, since there's no way she's going to remember that coursework. At least one year of high school will have to be repeated. Now on to college at 23. She graduates college at 27. Masters degrees are obligatory for many companies now, so 29 when she gets that degree. If she wants to be a doctor, dentist, anything that requires post-grad, she'll be into her 30s before she can practice.

You've just guaranteed that our best and brightest will reproduce less. Even the less talented won't be able to start adult lives until their late 20s/early 30s. Maybe this is not a problem, but we already seem to be taking an inordinately long time to reach adulthood and this will extend it even longer.

And you still haven't answered the question of how this will change the military, and conversely how it will affect professions that require long years of study and/or aren't a good fit with the military lifestyle.

If you have thoughts, write them. These are all questions that would need to be resolved if 4-year military mandatory service were in place.

They do not need to be resolved. Guys get of out the military after four years every month and go into STEM programs across the United States -- and they excel. Better than their peers, actually. Next issue.

[MilSpecs]

Usually, the engineers served for a couple of years and then used their GI benefits to get an education. Our oldest engineer just died - he was WWII. There's one ex-marine (not during wartime), two Vietnam era Army & Airforce guys, and I think that's it. I'm the only public servant. A lot of non-military keeps the military going.

Way to blow up your own argument.

They were older when they got their degrees. Much older. These guys were married and raising children while working during the day and going to school at night. My father did the same: he worked two jobs and went to school at night.