The Rubin Report

[Speaker to Animals]

It's like this:

Just as in every other experiment with democracy, the electorate expands to include most everybody, who then vote for more wars that the warrior class has to fight while degenerating the nation from within. Eventually the military has enough of this and takes over. The only alternative to this scenario is external conquest.

The interesting part is that the people embrace the military taking over. The Romans were elated when the Republic died and the fighting would end. Do you ever watch those Congressional hearings where some degenerate democrat is excoriating a panel of generals? Does it not strike you as odd that Congress, with the lowest approval rating by the American people ever excoriates the generals who enjoy some of the highest approval ratings by the American people? The only thing holding those generals back is their loyalty to the Constitution. A loyalty the politicians the masses elect do not share, I might add.

I'd rather have military rule at this point than who's in charge.

While I understand your sentiment, I believe making military service a requirement to vote will eventually weaken the military. The military has a scope of operations, not just anyone should be able to get in

It wouldn't weaken the military one bit.

I'd venture to guess that almost nobody would serve who doesn't already serve, just to get access to the ballot box.

If anything the military would be stronger since there would be no Obama's fucking with military tradition and culture, and no GWBs to start illegal wars.

[Speaker to Animals]

So that got awkward...

[DrYouth]

So paying taxes is slavery...

But military service for voting privilege is.... what exactly?

Now these arguments are coming from two different forum members...

These two forum members might see this differently.

Taxes make sense when they are contributions to a state that has earned authority... i.e. natural authority.

But do we even believe in natural authority any more?
Libertarianism at it's extremes seems to discount any such possibility.
Progressivism also seems to believe all authority is oppressive... except somehow the progressive state (a bald faced contradiction at the heart of progressivism).

[Okeefenokee]

It's like this:

Just as in every other experiment with democracy, the electorate expands to include most everybody, who then vote for more wars that the warrior class has to fight while degenerating the nation from within. Eventually the military has enough of this and takes over. The only alternative to this scenario is external conquest.

The interesting part is that the people embrace the military taking over. The Romans were elated when the Republic died and the fighting would end. Do you ever watch those Congressional hearings where some degenerate democrat is excoriating a panel of generals? Does it not strike you as odd that Congress, with the lowest approval rating by the American people ever excoriates the generals who enjoy some of the highest approval ratings by the American people? The only thing holding those generals back is their loyalty to the Constitution. A loyalty the politicians the masses elect do not share, I might add.

I'd rather have military rule at this point than who's in charge.

While I understand your sentiment, I believe making military service a requirement to vote will eventually weaken the military. The military has a scope of operations, not just anyone should be able to get in

Those same millions of people who are allowed to vote with absolutely no costs to themselves ONLY vote because there are absolutely no costs to them for voting.

The army was offering sixty thousand dollar signing bonuses to get people to join during the surge, and it didn't work. Think about that.

[Speaker to Animals]

So paying taxes is slavery...

But military service for voting privilege is.... what exactly?

The way America was founded to be.

[DrYouth]

So paying taxes is slavery...

But military service for voting privilege is.... what exactly?

The way America was founded to be.

Basically you see the military as a natural authority... one that has earned it's authority...
I think the military often takes this role in the course of history... i.e. the only remaining functional authority.
But militaries sometimes lose their authority... by becoming oppressive...
I think many citizens are unwilling to allow the military to become the sole authority over the state.... unless there is absolutely no other choice.

[cue the "there is no other choice" post]

[Speaker to Animals]

So paying taxes is slavery...

But military service for voting privilege is.... what exactly?

The way America was founded to be.

Basically you see the military as a natural authority... one that has earned it's authority...
I think the military often takes this role in the course of history... i.e. the only remaining functional authority.
But militaries sometimes lose their authority... by becoming oppressive...
I think many citizens are unwilling to allow the military to become the sole authority over the state.... unless there is absolutely no other choice.

[cue the "there is no other choice" post]

No.

I correctly identify sovereignty as the unique right to make war. Because we no longer place sovereignty into the hands of a single person, we possess popular sovereignty -- i.e. the People are the sovereign. But to be a sovereign entails your being willing to wage war. To my knowledge, the current heir of the English throne, for example, is keen to become a warrior. The king of Jordan is a warrior and so are his sons.

I think we can all recognize bad things happen to a kingdom whose king is afraid to fight his own wars. How much worse is a democracy where the majority of the electorate refuses to fight?

[Fife]

Skin in the game.

That's the essential element for suffrage. (If there is to be a popular vote of any kind.)

Military service (in some degree and classification) is certainly one metric. I can think of quite a few others.

But no skin in the game? No vote for you. In fact, no input from the risk-insulated at all, thank you very much.

Anyway, Democracy really is the god that failed.

[GloryofGreece]

The way America was founded to be.

Basically you see the military as a natural authority... one that has earned it's authority...
I think the military often takes this role in the course of history... i.e. the only remaining functional authority.
But militaries sometimes lose their authority... by becoming oppressive...
I think many citizens are unwilling to allow the military to become the sole authority over the state.... unless there is absolutely no other choice.

[cue the "there is no other choice" post]

No.

I correctly identify sovereignty as the unique right to make war. Because we no longer place sovereignty into the hands of a single person, we possess popular sovereignty -- i.e. the People are the sovereign. But to be a sovereign entails your being willing to wage war. To my knowledge, the current heir of the English throne, for example, is keen to become a warrior. The king of Jordan is a warrior and so are his sons.

I think we can all recognize bad things happen to a kingdom whose king is afraid to fight his own wars. How much worse is a democracy where the majority of the electorate refuses to fight?

Being sovereign means being able to protect your own and co what you will. But no one completely and utterly does what they will and if they really really do they get chewed to pieces eventually. You say the majority refuse to fight (and they do) but do you also believe the country fights too much or unnecessarily in a pure real politik sense?

[GloryofGreece]

Skin in the game.

That's the essential element for suffrage. (If there is to be a popular vote of any kind.)

Military service (in some degree and classification) is certainly one metric. I can think of quite a few others.

But no skin in the game? No vote for you. In fact, no input from the risk-insulated at all, thank you very much.

Anyway, Democracy really is the god that failed.

Fife (BTW thanks for bringing me to the attention of Brions podcast), what other ways can/should people have skin in the game? I know you'll say property, taxes (I guess) but what else?