The Enlightenment - roll it back or forward?

[DrYouth]

barbarity



Civilization started in 1787 folks.

1787... by which you are referring to the American Constitution I presume...
Still part of the same movement towards individual liberties... born of the same philosophers...

What's the argument here?

[Okeefenokee]

barbarity



Civilization started in 1787 folks.

1787... by which you are referring to the American Constitution I presume...
Still part of the same movement towards individual liberties... born of the same philosophers...

What's the argument here?

Responding to Hwen's lunacy.

barbarism

[DrYouth]

Responding to Hwen's lunacy.

barbarism

This is simply a vilification of the past....

The preenlightenment was evil and degenerate.... the post enlightenment was good and virtuous...

The flip side of a romantic idealization of the past...

The preenlightenment was virtuous and just and the post enlightenment was evil and degenerate....

Mirror images of one another.

Truth is that neither pre nor post was entirely virtuous and just... or entirely degenerate and evil.... the enlightenment happened in a partially successful effort to address problems with society as it evolved... but it brought in new problems and blundered massively as it went along... causing much suffering along the way.

[Hwen Hoshino]

barbarity



Civilization started in 1787 folks.

Our standards improved as we got closer to today.

[Speaker to Animals]

barbarity



Civilization started in 1787 folks.

Our standards improved as we got closer to today.

You really are fucking retarded if you actually believe that.

[Speaker to Animals]

[Speaker to Animals]

Standards improved, fam.

[DrYouth]

So I think most in this thread agree that our modern age has lost touch with spiritual values...
That much of what is celebrated is in fact degenerate behaviour.
Greed, Lust, Selfishness, Materialism, Egotism... all of these have taken centre stage
There seems no agreed upon spiritual path and many dismiss spirituality altogether.
What passes for spirituality is largely fad based and flavour of the month.

Wilber makes a serious study of this and finds consensus among the spiritual paths of the wisdom traditions... he has some pretty interesting observations to make about spiritual development and how this has come off the rails in our postmodern age.

[Hwen Hoshino]

barbarity



Civilization started in 1787 folks.

Our standards improved as we got closer to today.

You really are fucking retarded if you actually believe that.

THAT IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE PAST.

[DrYouth]

It doesn't really make sense to try to compare past to present in a competition of which was "better", or which was "worse"...
Obviously life spans have lengthened and rates of violence have decreased...
But rates of loneliness, depression and mental health disturbance have likely increased.

So would you rather live a short and violent life or a long and depressing one...

It's a suckers choice.

There is no going backwards in time at any rate.... recapturing the nostalgic past is a fools quest...

But perhaps the future could be less lonely and depressing....