The Enlightenment - roll it back or forward?

[DrYouth]

We just need to be who we are: a patrilocal species organized tribally.

We haven't been organized tribally for some time now...
Tribes are bloodlines organized under chiefs who command their followers who have a shared ancestor.
Tribes generally take part in ancestor worship which holds the tribe together.

You want to roll back to that?
The blood feuds are pretty wicked.

[DrYouth]

I agree - postmodernists and SJWs are trying to undermine all authority. There will always have to be some form of hierarchy, but the trend has been toward decentralization. Every time, we get a little further away from a single, central authority. At the peak of current cycle, our central authorities are completely underground and secretive, because they know that the population will not support it.

Once it all falls apart again, we'll try harder to keep it from repeating.

The argument against a global civilization is always a loss of personal freedom. Our current paradigm of state control is not compatible with a global-level government. We have to find a way to bring humanity together under a single standard, without trying to control the individual. And it's happening. There's less control than there's ever been over thought, behavior, and speech. But the backlash has to play out first.

Rolling back leads to a loss of personal freedom...
The enlightenment pretty much invented personal freedom.
No such thing existed before.

We have this idea that authority and personal freedom are at odds with each other because we had to rest personal freedom from authority during the revolutions of the enlightenment.

Postmodernists then went on to paint all authority as evil...

Post-postmodernism will demonstrate that authority and personal freedom need not be mutually exclusive... we can have both.
The universities no longer will have to be bastions of anti-authority.
Privilege will no longer need to hunted in the streets.

[Speaker to Animals]

We just need to be who we are: a patrilocal species organized tribally.

We haven't been organized tribally for some time now...
Tribes are bloodlines organized under chiefs who command their followers who have a shared ancestor.
Tribes generally take part in ancestor worship which holds the tribe together.

You want to roll back to that?
The blood feuds are pretty wicked.

Lol, really?

I think we are right now, globalist governments or not.

[DrYouth]

Lol, really?

I think we are right now, globalist governments or not.

How are we organized tribally?
Nation states aren't tribal.
Switzerland includes those who were formerly French, German and Italian...
Look at the UK... it has members of all of it's imperial territories now good British citizens for generations...
Are South American nations going to return to tribal lineages? Are the Inca going to rise up? The Aztecs?

[Speaker to Animals]

Lol, really?

I think we are right now, globalist governments or not.

How are we organized tribally?
Nation states aren't tribal.
Switzerland includes those who were formerly French, German and Italian...
Look at the UK... it has members of all of it's imperial territories now good British citizens for generations...
Are South American nations going to return to tribal lineages? Are the Inca going to rise up? The Aztecs?

We divide up every chance we get. Even me and Okee go to war over his fake game versus cool games you can actually play.

Americans divide up between red and blue, Yankee or Southerner or Western etc., and even by sports teams. We divide up into tribes in this very forum, principly between the warrior class and the soyboys.

But all those divisions are arbitrary. The natural divisions are based on membership in your local clan, whose analog is your community. This is why global balist governments seek to destroy communities with multiculturalism. It's why they blanket the media with propaganda to promote multiculturalism.

Imagine what happens when shit gets real. You are not likely going to trust your children's lives with some kabab down the street you hardly know.

[DrYouth]

We divide up every chance we get. Even me and Okee go to war over his fake game versus cool games you can actually play.

Americans divide up between red and blue, Yankee or Southerner or Western etc., and even by sports teams. We divide up into tribes in this very forum, principly between the warrior class and the soyboys.

But all those divisions are arbitrary. The natural divisions are based on membership in your local clan, whose analog is your community. This is why global balist governments seek to destroy communities with multiculturalism. It's why they blanket the media with propaganda to promote multiculturalism.

Imagine what happens when shit gets real. You are not likely going to trust your children's lives with some kabab down the street you hardly know.

Dividing over ideology is not equivalent to returning to tribal social structure.
We actually can't role back the social clock to premodernity... that genie has left the bottle.
We can critique modernity and post-modernity... but the only feasible path forward is not a return to ethnically pure communities...
The kababs are here... their children will gradually become more western if we protect our western values and institutions... which the postmodernists threaten and vilify at every opportunity.
We shouldn't vilify the kababs either... they came here of their own free will... but we should expect them to uphold our values and we should agree that it is right for us to have values... even values that many of the kababs don't share. Most of them arrive starry eyed about the west are plenty ready to adapt. It's actually confusing for them if we tell there is nothing to adapt to.

[Speaker to Animals]

You deliberately try to distort my post.

The REASON we divide up is our evolutionary psychology. We are tribal creatures. Insomuch as an unnatural state seeks to destroy our communities and social cohesion, we still try to find outlets for it. This is why the state has always fostered the weak substitutes for tribes in the form of sports teams and other fakery.

But it does not work in the long run. The people divide up into tribes and rip the thing apart in the end. Every time.

Ask the citizens of the Austro-Hungarian empire. Oh, wait. That imploded in ethnic warfare..

I did not say that this arbitrary tribes ar e the real thing. I said they are substitutes that can keep a lid on our human nature for the ends of the elite running a massive state Enterprise for so long. Even then.. the Byzantines could not even keep that in check when a city-wide riot threatened the imperial throne, and it was basically fans of two chariot teams fighting it out. Europe cannot keep the lid on soccer fans today.

It is who we are.

[DrYouth]

Well certainly we have a tribal nature... it's part of our genetic heritage... and it's part of what makes us human.

But we also have a primate heritage, a shrew heritage, and a reptile heritage... all of those aspects of the human are still relevant in our nervous system... we have transcended all of them and yet they are still present and influential...
None of this suggests that we cannot continue to evolve, socially and biologically...

In fact his may all be the unfolding of a spiritual trajectory greater than we can understand... Wilber is definitely spiritual in his theorizing... something the modernists and postmodernists are going to be uncomfortable with.

[Speaker to Animals]

Well certainly we have a tribal nature... it's part of our genetic heritage... and it's part of what makes us human.

But we also have a primate heritage, a shrew heritage, and a reptile heritage... all of those aspects of the human are still relevant in our nervous system... we have transcended all of them and yet they are still present and influential...
None of this suggests that we cannot continue to evolve, socially and biologically...

In fact his may all be the unfolding of a spiritual trajectory greater than we can understand... Wilber is definitely spiritual in his theorizing... something the modernists and postmodernists are going to be uncomfortable with.

Now you are using genetics to make the genetic fallacy, which is humorous, but no less fallacious.

In any case, it is my position that the nation state dominated by a single ethnicity and culture is the best scaling of our tribal nature into something larger. For America, that would divide us up into about four different nations, not including the first nations who deserve true sovereignty as well. Maybe create another spot for blacks. Let the cities remain the melting pot and see where this globalist experiment can lead (but not so that it fucks up every other part of humanity).

[SuburbanFarmer]

Well certainly we have a tribal nature... it's part of our genetic heritage... and it's part of what makes us human.

But we also have a primate heritage, a shrew heritage, and a reptile heritage... all of those aspects of the human are still relevant in our nervous system... we have transcended all of them and yet they are still present and influential...
None of this suggests that we cannot continue to evolve, socially and biologically...

In fact his may all be the unfolding of a spiritual trajectory greater than we can understand... Wilber is definitely spiritual in his theorizing... something the modernists and postmodernists are going to be uncomfortable with.

Now you are using genetics to make the genetic fallacy, which is humorous, but no less fallacious.

In any case, it is my position that the nation state dominated by a single ethnicity and culture is the best scaling of our tribal nature into something larger. For America, that would divide us up into about four different nations, not including the first nations who deserve true sovereignty as well. Maybe create another spot for blacks. Let the cities remain the melting pot and see where this globalist experiment can lead (but not so that it fucks up every other part of humanity).

That's not much of a change from present state...