Current US Military

[SuburbanFarmer]

You don't seem to understand how war is fought right now.

War is not fought right now. There hasn't been a US War since WW2.

We simply run roughshod over third-rate powers at will in "police actions", whenever it suits our special interests. At unbelievable cost to our treasure and resources.

You're an idiot. Please don't vote.

Like I said, it makes no difference what I vote. They'll keep doing it until they can't.

[Speaker to Animals]

It depends on how you see the future I guess.

If you want to keep on fighting regional battles against subpowers while maintaining global American hegemony than you need all this stuff.

If you think that's a giant waste of resources, then spending that on domestic infrastructure makes a lot more sense.

But most of that military machines will become absolute instantaneously in an actual great war.

You can do far more for the true military capabilities of the United States by getting more manufacturing domestically, then you ever will on offensive manned aircraft.

Weapon systems very, very rarely become obsolete. You'd be hard-pressed to find an example of that in history. Specific implementations of those systems become obsolete. We went from longbows to rifles, but ranged units were still a thing, for example. Sometimes, we think something is obsolete, such as armor, only to discover we had not thought of how to properly evolve the concept (armored vehicles and tanks). Oftentimes, something that was used very heavily is used less because we invented completely new weapon systems. For instance, we don't use the bladed weapon much any longer, but we still have to train with bayonnettes. We still carry knives on the battlefield. All across Africa the machete is used to great effect.

The idea that aircraft are going to be obsolete is so unbelievably naive and ridiculous that I have trouble even believing you believe this.

[nmoore63]

I think it would help if both of you had spent time actually fighting, or serving, or doing ANYTHING to these ends in order to understand what the fuck you are talking about. It feels like I am arguing against television shows or whatever you consumed to give you these ridiculous impressions.

If we go to war, and our adversaries gain air dominance over CONUS, you are going to have a really, really bad time.

I am certainly not knock the importance of air superiority.

I am knocking that it is clear we will run through a tech revolution in military equipment the second it is great power versus great power war developes.

That combined with the fact that I consider our regional wars blowing crazies in the desert to be a giant waste of resources.

As such creating the infrastructure to survive domestically while creating and maintaining the capacity to develop, produce and deploy said future equipment is more important than what we need to fuck around in the desert in 2018.

[nmoore63]

Weapon systems very, very rarely become obsolete. Y

Dude.

Pre-1900 naval vessels were useless in during world war one.
Pre-1930 aircraft were useless during world war two.

I do not count and am not talking about personal arms. I am talking machines.

If there is a great war in 2030, nothing we are building now will be useful in year 2 of the war.

[Speaker to Animals]

I think it would help if both of you had spent time actually fighting, or serving, or doing ANYTHING to these ends in order to understand what the fuck you are talking about. It feels like I am arguing against television shows or whatever you consumed to give you these ridiculous impressions.

If we go to war, and our adversaries gain air dominance over CONUS, you are going to have a really, really bad time.

I am certainly not knock the importance of air superiority.

I am knocking that it is clear we will run through a tech revolution in military equipment the second it is great power versus great power war developes.

That combined with the fact that I consider our regional wars blowing crazies in the desert to be a giant waste of resources.

As such creating the infrastructure to survive domestically while creating and maintaining the capacity to develop, produce and deploy said future equipment is more important than what we need to fuck around in the desert in 2018.

If we got into it with a major power, and they achieved air dominance over CONUS, there is not really anything you could have done prior that could possibly ensure we survive domestically. Once that happens, you are at their mercy.

The only reason we lost wars since WW2 is that we are not brutal bastards. We try to occupy or pacify people, and they just go into insurgency mode, which is nearly impossible to defeat while occupying an unwilling nation. Nobody is going to do that to us. They will proceed to exterminate most of us.

[Speaker to Animals]

Weapon systems very, very rarely become obsolete. Y

Dude.

Pre-1900 naval vessels were useless in during world war one.
Pre-1930 aircraft were useless during world war two.

I do not count and am not talking about personal arms. I am talking machines.

If there is a great war in 2030, nothing we are building now will be useful in year 2 of the war.

You confuse upgrades to a weapon system with the system itself going obsolete. Warships are hardly obsolete. We swapped out sails for engines, and wood for iron. In recent years we mostly swapped out guns for missiles too.

What's your point?

Systems rarely go obsolete. They evolve.

[nmoore63]

No.

Every world war 1 tank was useless In world war 2

They were scrap.

[Speaker to Animals]

I am trying to think of a weapons platform concept that has gone obsolete, and I honestly cannot think of one other than maybe a siege engine, but even then I am not sure the idea is totally obsolete.

[Speaker to Animals]

No.

Every world war 1 tank was useless In world war 2

They were scrap.

The TANK was not useless. You are confusing the system of a tank with a specific tank model.

Do you think cars are obsolete because the Model T sucks??

[nmoore63]

I don’t have an issue with the concepts... though it is difficult to imagine year 2 is the war.

But it is clear that the thing already holding back the f-35 is the human occupant.

The only reason they matter is because of effeciency.

But it’s very obvious already that the quantity of future tech will far outstrip the quality of current capabilities.