THE ERA OF TRUMP

Okeefenokee
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:17 pm

Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:19 pm
From the DHS website:

"The Attorney General directed United States Attorneys on the Southwest Border to prosecute all amenable adults who illegally enter the country, including those accompanied by their children, for 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a), illegal entry.

"Children whose parents are referred for prosecution will be placed with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR)."

Another FAQ section deals with questions including "Why Are Parents Being Separated From Their Children?"; "Where Are Children Going?"; and "What Happens to Children in HHS Custody?"


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http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ad ... reddit.com
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In this June 18, 2014 photo, two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs and Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona. Associated Press/Ross D. Franklin
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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Okeefenokee
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:14 pm
There is no law stating that children MUST be separated from parents while crossing the border. This is Trump policy and if there was a legal law stating that children must be separated from their parents while crossing the border, why did Trump choose to just start doing this within the last month or so?
Image
In this June 18, 2014 photo, two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs and Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona. Associated Press/Ross D. Franklin
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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Okeefenokee
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Will you ever stop lying?
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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Haumana
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Haumana » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:19 pm

Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:14 pm
There is no law stating that children MUST be separated from parents while crossing the border. This is Trump policy and if there was a legal law stating that children must be separated from their parents while crossing the border, why did Trump choose to just start doing this within the last month or so?
There is if the parents are charged with a federal misdemeanor (entry without inspection in this case). The law is being enforced and the kids aren't allowed to join their parents in jail to await trial.

Penner
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Penner » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:25 pm

Again if it was the law since 1997, or 2015 (or whatever) then why did Trump just decided to just start to enforce this law now? Also, Obama had to deal with children that came without parents. Trump is taking children away from their parents.
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Okeefenokee
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 pm

Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:25 pm
Again if it was the law since 1997, or 2015 (or whatever) then why did Trump just decided to just start to enforce this law now? Also, Obama had to deal with children that came without parents. Trump is taking children away from their parents.
Image
In this June 18, 2014 photo, two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs and Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona. Associated Press/Ross D. Franklin
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

Penner
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Penner » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:28 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 pm
Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:25 pm
Again if it was the law since 1997, or 2015 (or whatever) then why did Trump just decided to just start to enforce this law now? Also, Obama had to deal with children that came without parents. Trump is taking children away from their parents.
Image
In this June 18, 2014 photo, two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs and Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona. Associated Press/Ross D. Franklin
Again, Obama never took children away from their parents. They came without any parents. Trump is taken children from their parents on a "law" that he just started to enforce.
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Penner
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Penner » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:58 pm


DONALD TRUMP
Fact check: Did Obama administration separate families?
This claim, from DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen and conservative commentators, is false, according to immigration advocates and former officials.
by Jane C. Timm / Jun.19.2018 / 6:17 PM ET
Children at a temporary home for immigrant women and children detained at the border in 2014 in Karnes City, Texas.
Children at a temporary home for immigrant women and children detained at the border in 2014 in Karnes City, Texas.Eric Gay / AP file
Amid outcry over the "zero tolerance" immigration policy implemented by President Donald Trump's administration in April, conservative commentators and his head of Homeland Security have sought to downplay the practice of separating families who cross the border illegally as nothing new.

"The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families," Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen told reporters at the White House on Monday. "They absolutely did. They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this. This is not new."


DHS Secretary falsely says only Congress can fix separation policy
Matt Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union, made a similar point on Fox News on Friday.

"You know what's ironic?" he said. "It's the same way Barack Obama did it."


Political activists confront DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen at Mexican restaurant
But immigration advocates and former Obama administration officials say that's just not true: The Obama administration did not have any kind of widespread practice of separating children from their parents. Trump's policy aims to prosecute every single illegal border crossing, including asylum-seekers. The government separates children from their parents or legal guardians because the adults have been referred for prosecution for illegal entry into the United States.

The idea that this is simply a continuation of an Obama-era practice is "preposterous," said Denise Gilman, director of the Immigration Clinic at the University of Texas Law School. "There were occasionally instances where you would find a separated family — maybe like one every six months to a year — and that was usually because there had been some actual individualized concern that there was a trafficking situation or that the parent wasn’t actually the parent."

Once custody concerns were resolved, "there was pretty immediately reunification," Gilman told NBC News. "There were not 2,000 kids in two months — it’s not the same universe," she added.


The Trump administration separated 1,995 children from 1,940 adults from April 19 to May 31, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security said Friday, a period in which the "zero tolerance" policy was in effect.

Jeh Johnson, who served as homeland security secretary under Obama, said he did not separate children and parents despite the enormous surges of unaccompanied minors and families that came across the border in 2014 fleeing Central American violence.

"In three years on my watch, we probably deported or returned or repatriated about a million people to enforce border security. One of the things I could not do is separate a child from his or her mother, or literally pull a mother from his or her arms," Johnson said on MSNBC last week. “I just couldn’t do it.”

Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, Cecilia Muñoz, said the Obama administration did consider a similar policy, but determined it heartless.


"The agencies were surfacing every possible idea,” Muñoz told The New York Times in an interview recently. "I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea. The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are."



Thoughts of a migrant at the border
The Obama administration did, however, detain families together — some indefinitely — in hopes of deterring future migrants back in 2014, earning protests and public outrage at the time.

"Family separation just adds injury to the insult of detention," said Bradley Jenkins, manager of the Board of Immigration Appeals Pro Bono Project at CLINIC, the Catholic Legal Immigration Network Inc. He argued the detention of asylum-seekers is "unnecessary," and that Obama-era detention centers were concerning, too.


During the Obama administration, courts intervened in several cases in which families were detained together. The detention of migrants could not be used as an effort to deter asylum-seekers, according to one ruling. According to another, the detention of minors with their parents ran afoul of the 1997 Flores settlement, a ruling that set standards for the detention of minors by prioritizing them for release to the custody of their families and requiring those in federal custody to be placed in the least restrictive environment possible.

On Tuesday, the Trump administration said they are looking for a legislative change to that legal precedent on how the government treats children in immigration custody.

"In each and every one of our negotiations in the last 18 months, all the immigration bills, we asked for resolution on the Flores settlement that is what we view requires 20 days before you have to release children and basically parents been released with children into society," White House Legislative Affairs Director Marc Short told reporters.

It's unclear if the Trump administration seeks authority to detain children long term, or would support another method of keeping families together during prosecution.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immig ... es-n884856
Last edited by Penner on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Okeefenokee
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:00 pm

Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:28 pm
Okeefenokee wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 pm
Penner wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:25 pm
Again if it was the law since 1997, or 2015 (or whatever) then why did Trump just decided to just start to enforce this law now? Also, Obama had to deal with children that came without parents. Trump is taking children away from their parents.
Image
In this June 18, 2014 photo, two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs and Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona. Associated Press/Ross D. Franklin
Again, Obama never took children away from their parents. They came without any parents. Trump is taken children from their parents on a "law" that he just started to enforce.
You mean he broke the law.
While the media fulminate over the issue of illegal immigrant parental separation from children — and while they go nearly insane over the implication by certain members of the Trump administration that such policy amounts to an attempt to “deter” illegal immigration — it’s worth remembering that the Obama administration pursued nearly all the same activities as the Trump administration with regard to treatment of an influx of illegal immigration in 2014-2015.

In 2015, for example, The New York Times reported that a federal judge had found that the Obama administration had violated the Flores settlement in keeping families together in custody. According to the Times:
  • Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.
Furthermore, it turns out that the Obama administration was holding women and children together — and not releasing children — in order to deter further immigration. Yes, you read that right. The same people now complaining about the Trump administration using child/parent separation as a deterrent were entranced with the idea of keeping children and parents together as a deterrent. Jeh Johnson, former Secretary of Homeland Security, said at the time regarding family detention, "The practice has reformed considerably since 2 years ago when we first opened these things up, but I think that we need to continue the practice, so we’re not just engaging in catch-and-release on the border." Johnson, in other words, used the exact same verbiage as the Trump administration to describe keeping children in custody alongside parents — not out of humanitarian concern, but as a deterrent.

Yet Johnson recently ripped parental separation while admitting, "We actually did the opposite of what is going on now by keeping families together. A lot of people objected to holding families in detention facilities. We expanded family detention. That was controversial. Very clearly."

Here’s the Times:
  • Initially, Homeland Security officials said they were detaining the families to send a message to others in Central America to deter them from coming to the United States illegally. In February, a federal court in Washington, D.C., ruled that strategy unconstitutional. Officials stopped invoking deterrence as a factor in deciding whether to release mothers and children as they seek asylum in the United States.

    But many women and children remained stalled behind bleak walls and fences month after month with no end in sight. Mothers became severely depressed or anxious, and their distress echoed in their children, who became worried and sickly.
In fact, the Obama administration’s statements regarding the deterrent effects of keeping children in custody alongside parents led the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to rule that children had to be released. The court stated:
  • In January 2015, a group of Central American migrants, who were not represented by Flores class counsel, filed a putative class action, claiming that the government had adopted a no-release policy as to Central American families. ... The court found that ICE had not adopted a blanket no-release policy, but found ample support for the plaintiffs’ alternative contention that “DHS policy directs ICE officers to consider deterrence of mass migration as a factor in their custody determinations, and that this policy has played a significant role in the recent increased detention of Central American mothers and children.” Id. at 174. The court preliminarily enjoined the government from using deterrence as a factor in detaining class members. R.I.L-R v. Johnson, No. 1:15-cv-00011- JEB, Dkt. 32 (D.D.C. Feb. 20, 2015).
In other words, keeping children and parents together was not to be treated as a deterrent, according to the Court. Yet the outrage over the Obama administration holding women and children together for deportation as a stated deterrent drew no ubiquitous comparisons to Nazi Germany or Japanese internment from the mainstream media.

The Obama administration was castigated somewhat mildly for keeping children and parents together; the Trump administration has been ripped a new one for separating them. Here, then, is the point: the only real solution sought by the hard Left is release of all illegal immigrant parents into the interior of the United States.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/32029/fl ... en-shapiro
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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Haumana
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Re: THE ERA OF TRUMP

Post by Haumana » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:00 pm

Obama overlooked the rule of law and didn't charge the parents with the crimes that they committed. No different than any other parent who has to go to jail, they don't get to take their kids with them.