Seattle Socialists Strangle Golden Goose

[DBTrek]

The problem with liberals who think they understand conservatives is they confuse their own myopia for “conservatives being dumb”. They’re dazzled by a single accomplishment, like “6% reduction in HIV” and fail to consider anything outside of that single talking point.

• They fail to consider if $1.2million might prevent more thana 6% increase in HIV if used elsewhere.
  
  They fail to consider the social ramifications of making hard drug use easier on users.
  
  They fail to consider environmental impact costs of homeless tent cities springing up on public land and weathering the human waste, refuse, and disease brought by hard drug users.
  
  They fail to consider how the mass proliferation of drug needles on public land negatively impacts the entire community
  
  They fail to consider the ramifications of introducing fundamental inequalities into the justice system - homeless heroin users are left alone, anyone else caught with heroin serves hard time
  
  So on and so forth

Nope, these folks who consider themselves the “enlightened” among us are completely unable to engage in big picture thinking. They’re accustomed to being told one factoid, like “needle exchanges reduce HIV by 6% among hard drug users, therefore they’re good and conservatives are just too stupid to realize it” - and off they go.

They’ve received the talking point. They’ve been assured they’re right. All boxes in their simple little black-and-white world have been checked, so no critical thinking need occur.

Hubris built upon false confidence and shielded from scrutiny through a lack of self awareness. Some grow out of it. Others don’t.

[TheReal_ND]

Oh and in case anyone is wondering it takes all of two seconds to scrape a syringe needle off a rig, thus preventing any danger. You cant contract HIV from a used needle that has been sitting out for longer than a minute anyway. I wouldnt be surprised to learn that this BS needle exchange program is nothing more than cover for an endless supply of rigs for junkies. Which it is.

[jediuser598]

So instead of doing the logical thing, and you know trying to prevent the spread of HIV so that some of the pressure on our hospitals are not getting hit by that extra 6% of new HIV patients, which conservatives demand be seen (and they should be), instead their care should just be you know, done by emergency rooms, because needle exchanges are dumb.

ER is prohibitively expensive if you are not in an actual emergency. Some people will use the ER for what they think is an emergency while others will use it if they need care and have no intention of paying. All of these costs are passed on to the people I like to call "tax payers," ie the people that actually pay for insurance premiums that go up every quarter.

As for needle exchanges those are "dumb." What on earth makes you think that people injecting street drugs into their veins give two fucks about what happens to their dull rigs?

These people who are getting HIV and other diseases are still showing up at ER's.

If they're passed dying, they still get taken to the ER, which means we tax payers are on the hook.

So someone had the smart idea to say "Hey, it's a shitty situation, maybe we just give them clean needles in exchange and they #1 stop sharing the needles so much and #2 stop leaving their needles everywhere."

The better situation would be that people didn't do that shit, that they decide not to do drugs, but they're already hooked, so what do we do with them now?

I mean, let them die is one option, though there are moral considerations.

[TheReal_ND]

The fact that you believe the rest of the community should be on the hook for additional care beyond that, like every time some junkie injects themselves by shooting up with a dirty needle, simply highlights your feelings of entitlement to spend other people’s money on your pet causes.

The whole point of a representative government, is to determine not only how to spend *your* taxes, but your neighbor's taxes as well. We decide, as a community, how to spend our taxes. I'm entitled to a vote, as a citizen. I entitled to advocate for my interests, and go out and vote.

It hurts to give you a civics lesson when you should know this.

I too prefer collective action. Why dont we implement direct democracy on this needle exchange program and ses how it pans out?

[jediuser598]

The problem with liberals who think they understand conservatives, I’d they confuse their own myopia for “conservatives being dumb”. They’re dazzled by a single accomplishment, like “6% reduction in HIV” and fail to consider anything outside of that single talking point.

• They fail to consider if $1.2million might prevent more thana 6% increase in HIV if used elsewhere.
  
  They fail to consider the social ramifications of making hard drug use easier on users.
  
  They fail to consider environmental impact costs of homeless tent cities springing up on public land and weathering the human waste, refuse, and disease brought by hard drug users.
  
  They fail to consider how the mass proliferation of drug needles on public land negatively impacts the entire community
  
  They fail to consider the ramifications of introducing fundamental inequalities into the justice system - homeless heroin users are left alone, anyone else caught with heroin serves hard time
  
  So on and so forth

Nope, these folks who consider themselves the “enlightened” among us are completely unable to engage in big picture thinking. They’re accustomed to being told one factoid, like “needle exchanges reduce HIV by 6% among hard drug users, therefore they’re good and conservatives are just too stupid to realize it” - and off they go.

They’ve received the talking point. They’ve been assured they’re right. All boxes in their simple little black-and-white world have been checked, so no critical thinking need occur.

Hubris built upon false confidence and shielded from scrutiny through a lack of self awareness. Some grow out of it. Others don’t.

It's the only factoid I could get you on the same page with me on.

From that I built the logical consequences of your beliefs, your "Treatment through the ER."

I provide an example of something like the needle exchanges producing results (and a 6% decrease in HIV transmission is a result).

What's the cost of that junky going to the ER instead of not having those symptoms from HIV/Aids?

I mean shit, it would be cheaper if they'd just get lifetime treatment after they contracted it, and according to the king county website, lifetime treatment for HIV is "$385,200."

By preventing infections in just three people per year, the needle exchange program pays for itself.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health ... hange.aspx

By your own fucking logic, the program pays for itself if it stops three people from contracting HIV. The ER is going to be a lot more expensive if that junky doesn't die quickly and keeps utilizing the ER to treat symptoms. Hell, like I said, even just giving them the treatment would be better, and less expensive.

Fiscally conservative, for sure.

[jediuser598]

The fact that you believe the rest of the community should be on the hook for additional care beyond that, like every time some junkie injects themselves by shooting up with a dirty needle, simply highlights your feelings of entitlement to spend other people’s money on your pet causes.

The whole point of a representative government, is to determine not only how to spend *your* taxes, but your neighbor's taxes as well. We decide, as a community, how to spend our taxes. I'm entitled to a vote, as a citizen. I entitled to advocate for my interests, and go out and vote.

It hurts to give you a civics lesson when you should know this.

I too prefer collective action. Why dont we implement direct democracy on this needle exchange program and ses how it pans out?

Or why don't we just get the numbers as they are and observe how they're panning out?

Oh yeah:

HIV infection among PWID has been shown to increase 6% per year on average in cities that do not have needle exchange. In contrast, HIV declined 6% per year among PWID in cities that have exchange programs.

[DBTrek]

Way to reenforce your one myopic talking point with the other consecutive and equally myopic talking points.

Sorry dude, you just haven’t developed to the point where you can break free of your training yet.
/shrug

[TheReal_ND]

The whole point of a representative government, is to determine not only how to spend *your* taxes, but your neighbor's taxes as well. We decide, as a community, how to spend our taxes. I'm entitled to a vote, as a citizen. I entitled to advocate for my interests, and go out and vote.

It hurts to give you a civics lesson when you should know this.

I too prefer collective action. Why dont we implement direct democracy on this needle exchange program and ses how it pans out?

Or why don't we just get the numbers as they are and observe how they're panning out?

Oh yeah:

HIV infection among PWID has been shown to increase 6% per year on average in cities that do not have needle exchange. In contrast, HIV declined 6% per year among PWID in cities that have exchange programs.

No, let's put it to a vote. Surely you dont want "The Man" implementing policies you agree with even if they are unpopular. I mean only squares would be lackeys that need to undemocratically push their legislation through.

[jediuser598]

Way to reenforce your one myopic talking point with the other consecutive and equally myopic talking points.

Sorry dude, you just haven’t developed to the point where you can break free of your training yet.
/shrug

I just took you to school, and you're not smart enough to see it.

You live in this world where you think you're wrong, only if you believe you're wrong. You have such a strong subjective sense of your intellectual prowess, your own innate "rightness" that your ego cannot really understand logical argument to the contrary.

What was that you said earlier? That you didn't agree with me on anything, even though you had just agreed with me on something? That's how strong the distortion is. You sure you weren't a marine? That's marine level ego distortion.

[jediuser598]

No, let's put it to a vote. Surely you dont want "The Man" implementing policies you agree with even if they are unpopular. I mean only squares would be lackeys that need to undemocratically push their legislation through.

If the people of Seattle don't want needle exchanges in their cities, then they'll vote out the people who are putting in those needle exchanges or elect someone who will promise to get rid of those needle exchanges.

This isn't the federal government, small groups of people can have a huge impact on local government.

If you're railing against legitimate democratic process (read constitutional process), then that's your problem.