Why are you conservative, why are you liberal, why are you independent?

[Fife]

[Speaker to Animals]

Show of hands.

Who actually believes that acknowledging immoral behavior as being in fact immoral is tantamount to wanting a nanny state.

[jediuser598]

Show of hands.

Who actually believes that acknowledging immoral behavior as being in fact immoral is tantamount to wanting a nanny state.

Because gay marriage is immoral?

[Speaker to Animals]

Show of hands.

Who actually believes that acknowledging immoral behavior as being in fact immoral is tantamount to wanting a nanny state.

Because gay marriage is immoral?

Excellent example.

Sodomy is immoral.

When a significant percentage of the population adopted the attitude that "it does not harm anybody else" (a flagrant lie), gays decided they needed legal protections and social punishments for any holdouts that refused to pretend like sodomy was anything but immoral. Then because everybody was pretending it was perfectly fine, they had the basis to argue for gay marriage. Once that was in place, they needed ever more state power to punish anybody who didn't play along with that new development, including shutting people out of commerce, business, and even jobs and university programs.

The way you get a nanny state is by pretending immoral behavior "doesn't harm anybody else".

There exists a direct line between people in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing homosexuality "doesn't harm anybody" and the leviathan anti-freedom laws now in effect.

And that's not even accounting what has to be constructed to mitigate all the harm that homosexuality inflicts upon our society. That's whole separate level of nanny statism.


Had we just kept it with, sodomy is wrong, but it's not worth punishing people for it, we'd never have gotten to this point.

[doc_loliday]

Lots of hands going up I see. I stick to my to original statement. You can hurt yourselves, and hurt each other if you agree to it. I don't care. And that's what sets people off. They want you to care. Don't you care? You have to care! You have to acknowledge my morals and my cares! Nah, I'm good, you'll just have to live with that fact that people don't care about your feelings.

[Speaker to Animals]

You go out of your way to refuse to acknowledge a damned thing I said and then straw man me with this ridiculous you want a nanny state!! farce.

I want to acknowledge that these things are immoral so that they don't get encouraged. So that they don't get state sanctioned. So that we don't end up with more nanny state to clean up the harm they inflict upon society and an authoritarian state to force everybody to play-pretend these things aren't the immoral acts that they are.

Just stop pretending like this shit "doesn't hurt other people" when it obviously does. Once you stop pretending immoral acts are moral, nobody can demand that the government protect that behavior, or codify it with legal contracts and protections, and you won't end up with a fucking police state to clean up the consequences.

If we all decide it's not worth controlling, we can live and let live. But we should NOT pretend like it's okay.

[Speaker to Animals]

Another example of how this works:

It's definitely not morally okay to chop your dick off and take estrogen to pretend like you are a woman. But it's also probably not worth anybody's effort to try to control it. However, when you pretend like it doesn't cause harm, that it's not immoral, you provide the groundwork for transgender activists to start creating legal protections for that practice. Which means legal punishments for people who don't want to play along. It means you get booted from your university because you don't want to call Steve a "she". You end up with the state actually criminalizing the truth (that Steve is a male), and forcing people to pretend this fantasy is the reality. Then you have the sky-high suicide rate of people who did this because they later come to regret what is mostly irreversible mutilation of their bodies. This causes harm to our society. We lose out on people who could otherwise contribute, make society a better place, and thrive. As this cancer spreads, more and more people are turning to it as an escape from the horrific gender war we created by simultaneously pretending like feminism is okay (it's obviously not).

All this shit happens because otherwise good people, out of an overabundance of courtesy, decide to agree to a falsehood even though they know it is a lie.

If you don't want to live in a nanny state authoritarian state, then you had better start expressing the truth, even when it's unpopular.


This is what I mean by feeding the magui after midnight. When you agree to perpetuate a moral falsehood like that, you create the gremlins. If you don't want the gremlins, then don't feed the magui after midnight. Speak the truth. You can be tolerant of something that is immoral in many cases, but you should NEVER pretend like the act is anything other than immoral and destructive.

[PartyOf5]

We don't let diabetics die because they eat their feelings

Please elaborate and/or explain.

Type 2 is another disease that has genetic and psychological components. Maybe metabolic syndrome is a better analogy. Either way, we don't approach it from just the psychological side. If we can find out the genetic origin of the disorder, that would be a pretty big part of solving the problem. It's not a liberal or conservative issue. Some people can overeat and not get sick. Some people gorge and have huge difficulty controlling the urge. Some people don't eat much and still get sick. Some people can take or leave alcohol. Some people use once and the desire consumes them - something in their brain gets turned on.

There is clearly a genetic component to this, and I don't see why we can't approach these disorders from the medical end and with psychological help and social support. Just one of the three is more likely to fail.

Not sure why you chose the term eat their feelings. I'm 6'1" and 185 and have type 2. I don't eat me feelings.

[doc_loliday]

However, when you pretend like it doesn't cause harm, that it's not immoral, you provide the groundwork for transgender activists to start creating legal protections for that practice. Which means legal punishments for people who don't want to play along. It means you get booted from your university because you don't want to call Steve a "she".

Non-sequitur. One doesn't cause the other. For example the Catholic Church has historically led to child rape, but it doesn't cause it. You'll never get me to see it differently.

I don't care if a gay person marries someone. That doesn't cause them to shut down businesses. If they try to do that, then the business owner's rights come into play. We should be striving for the principle.

This is what happens when you let the hypocrites moralize. They drone on about demographic winters, but do nothing themselves. They bleat about sex out of marriage but they do it themselves. Actions speak way louder than words.

Yawn.

[Okeefenokee]

However, when you pretend like it doesn't cause harm, that it's not immoral, you provide the groundwork for transgender activists to start creating legal protections for that practice. Which means legal punishments for people who don't want to play along. It means you get booted from your university because you don't want to call Steve a "she".

Non-sequitur. One doesn't cause the other. For example the Catholic Church has historically led to child rape, but it doesn't cause it. You'll never get me to see it differently.

This is what happens when you let the hypocrites moralize. They drone on about demographic winters, but do nothing themselves. They bleat about sex out of marriage but they do it themselves. Actions speak way louder than words.

Yawn.

You aren't seriously arguing that normalization and stigmas don't affect behavior, are you?