What would have been the best overall Medieval Kingdom to live in?

[DrYouth]

Lots of Europe was just fine in the medieval period. If the question were framed in that period between late antiquity and the medieval period (like the 600s), then sure. There was a total economic and political collapse in Western Europe back then.

True, lots of Europe was just fine...
But Andalusia was renowned for it's arts, philosophy and medicine... so it makes a solid choice.
Not to mention my (non muslim) family roots in the area.

No hard on for Islam necessary.
But it seems you have a hard on for accusing others of having a hard on for Islam.

[Speaker to Animals]

Lots of Europe was just fine in the medieval period. If the question were framed in that period between late antiquity and the medieval period (like the 600s), then sure. There was a total economic and political collapse in Western Europe back then.

True, lots of Europe was just fine...
But Andalusia was renowned for it's arts, philosophy and medicine... so it makes a solid choice.
Not to mention my (non muslim) family roots in the area.

No hard on for Islam necessary.
But it seems you have a hard on for accusing others of having a hard on for Islam.

Andulusia was populated by Christians, DrY. It was those things not because of Muslims. It was despite Muslims, and the people who produced all those arts eventually had their opportunity to kill the Muslims or drive them the fuck out of their homes and did so.

[StCapps]

Just because Christian's helped to fuel the Islamic Golden Age doesn't mean it wasn't a Golden Age.
/shrugs

[GloryofGreece]

Is there evidence that Christians contributed the most or more significantly to the House of Wisdom than Arabic scholars? How many scholars in Muslim Spain were Christian or Jewish...most/half/or less?

[Speaker to Animals]

Just because Christian's helped to fuel the Islamic Golden Age doesn't mean it wasn't a Golden Age.
/shrugs

It wasn't an Islamic golden age at all. Muslims conquered a huge portion of western civilization. They were living high on the hog atop Christian engineering and other advances for a while, but eventually pillages, raped, and murdered the golden goose out of existence and went right back to being what they always were: bandits.

This is a religion of bandits were are talking about here. Once you realize that, it makes a lot more sense.

[Speaker to Animals]

This was the Andalusian counterpart to St. Thomas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

Both St. Thomas and Averroes were Aristotelian. Aristotle in those days was lesser known than Plato. The Catholic hierarchy had tried to suppress teaching Aristotelian philosophy in the cathedral schools and budding universities, but were unsuccessful. They couldn't really stop anybody from teaching it legally. It became the basis for Thomistic theology which is now the primary basis for Catholic theology today as opposed to Platonism in those days.

Averroes was shut right the fuck down by the clerics.

The heart of the problem was that both men considered faith and reason to be coequals. The truth is the truth is the truth. Faith without reason is like a bird with one wing, and vice versa. But the Muslim religion does not really allow for that. It's faith is above all else, including science and reason.

Indeed, even in the height of the Ottoman empire, which was arguably the most powerful Islam ever got, the Sultans periodically had the physical philosophers (what would be a scientist in the medieval world) murdered. Physical science was not considered Muslim. Muslims had their own "Muslim sciences" that promulgated the Islamic religion.


St. Thomas once remarked that he couldn't believe anybody would take the Islamic faith seriously after having read the Koran. Perhaps he was on to something. Islam requires quite a lot of intellectual suppression to persist. That's ironic to me because the same people who constantly signal the inquisition myth are the ones with the raging boner for Islam.

[StCapps]

This was the Andalusian counterpart to St. Thomas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

Both St. Thomas and Averroes were Aristotelian. Aristotle in those days was lesser known than Plato. The Catholic hierarchy had tried to suppress teaching Aristotelian philosophy in the cathedral schools and budding universities, but were unsuccessful. They couldn't really stop anybody from teaching it legally. It became the basis for Thomistic theology which is now the primary basis for Catholic theology today as opposed to Platonism in those days.

Averroes was shut right the fuck down by the clerics.

The Islamic Golden Age didn't last forever, it's true.

[GloryofGreece]

This was the Andalusian counterpart to St. Thomas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

Both St. Thomas and Averroes were Aristotelian. Aristotle in those days was lesser known than Plato. The Catholic hierarchy had tried to suppress teaching Aristotelian philosophy in the cathedral schools and budding universities, but were unsuccessful. They couldn't really stop anybody from teaching it legally. It became the basis for Thomistic theology which is now the primary basis for Catholic theology today as opposed to Platonism in those days.

Averroes was shut right the fuck down by the clerics.

The heart of the problem was that both men considered faith and reason to be coequals. The truth is the truth is the truth. Faith without reason is like a bird with one wing, and vice versa. But the Muslim religion does not really allow for that. It's faith is above all else, including science and reason.

Indeed, even in the height of the Ottoman empire, which was arguably the most powerful Islam ever got, the Sultans periodically had the physical philosophers (what would be a scientist in the medieval world) murdered. Physical science was not considered Muslim. Muslims had their own "Muslim sciences" that promulgated the Islamic religion.


St. Thomas once remarked that he couldn't believe anybody would take the Islamic faith seriously after having read the Koran. Perhaps he was on to something. Islam requires quite a lot of intellectual suppression to persist. That's ironic to me because the same people who constantly signal the inquisition myth are the ones with the raging boner for Islam.

Not to pick a fight and you've posted a video of a scholar refuting the inquisition stereotype ...but is the summary essentially there isn't a lot of evidence that the inquisition killed and tortured as many people that is typically talked about?

[Speaker to Animals]

This was the Andalusian counterpart to St. Thomas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

Both St. Thomas and Averroes were Aristotelian. Aristotle in those days was lesser known than Plato. The Catholic hierarchy had tried to suppress teaching Aristotelian philosophy in the cathedral schools and budding universities, but were unsuccessful. They couldn't really stop anybody from teaching it legally. It became the basis for Thomistic theology which is now the primary basis for Catholic theology today as opposed to Platonism in those days.

Averroes was shut right the fuck down by the clerics.

The heart of the problem was that both men considered faith and reason to be coequals. The truth is the truth is the truth. Faith without reason is like a bird with one wing, and vice versa. But the Muslim religion does not really allow for that. It's faith is above all else, including science and reason.

Indeed, even in the height of the Ottoman empire, which was arguably the most powerful Islam ever got, the Sultans periodically had the physical philosophers (what would be a scientist in the medieval world) murdered. Physical science was not considered Muslim. Muslims had their own "Muslim sciences" that promulgated the Islamic religion.


St. Thomas once remarked that he couldn't believe anybody would take the Islamic faith seriously after having read the Koran. Perhaps he was on to something. Islam requires quite a lot of intellectual suppression to persist. That's ironic to me because the same people who constantly signal the inquisition myth are the ones with the raging boner for Islam.

Not to pick a fight and you've posted a video of a scholar refuting the inquisition stereotype ...but is the summary essentially there isn't a lot of evidence that the inquisition killed and tortured as many people that is typically talked about?

Huh, what?

That's a completely different conversation. I meant that as an aside. We are talking about Andalusians here. There's quite a lot about how the inquisition myths started that's been published.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historica ... nquisition

It's basically a myth like the one about how medieval Europeans thought the world was flat. It's just not true. The medieval inquisition was very popular and was actually instituted to *stop* people from getting executed by the secular authorities. The Spanish Inquisition, early on was kind of fucked up if you happened to be a Converso, but the Church tried to put a stop to that thing, and it became a lot more like the medieval inquisition after a generation or so of Ferdinand and Isabella. Most of the time, these institutions existed to do the opposite of what the myth says.

A lot of what the average low-info Jacobin thinks is true about the period is pretty much a myth. Think about how bass akwards they are with every thing else in the world. This isn't any different.

[heydaralon]

In other words, if you had to live in the Middle Ages what nation/kingdom would have been the most stable for the average joe overall? And what approximate time period specifically?

1200s England?....Swiss Cantons ? Venice? Constantinople?

The most stable? I would go with Constantinople around late 1452-1454.

Thanks for playing...

Wow bro! I offed my opinion and you shoot me down. That is the last time I try to help out a friend in need!